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MOROS: To be or not to be...

Here's one more Piss Book discussions about the Ingaran a MOROs.

Arata Wata The current barrages of verbal abuses against our Bangsa is obviously an issue of respect. The Indios have come to believe that we don't deserve an ounce of respect and so they can say or do whatever they like without repercussions. Unfortunately, until we get the respect of the Indios, we'll never get justice from them.

How can we gain their respect? 

We've been fighting the longest running war of resistance in history and some of us took the brand name MORO to scare them but we may have scared some but we lost the respect of many.

How about if we drop the brand name MORO (after all its not ours) and assume a proper name, a respectable name that emphasizes our commonality with the Indios. Let our new name declare that we are all Malays, that we were all brothers and sisters before the freakin' Spaniards came and spread their religion and mayhem.

Lets break the tribal divide. If we are not the feared and hated MOROs, if we are their Malay brethrens, maybe, they will be more accomodating to our aspirations. 

Its easier to give something good to a brother than to an enemy. Don't you think?

Oh, how I hate the name MORO anyways... and so many of us share the same sentiment about this Spanish-given freakin' name.

I believe proper name is important in our struggle.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Amomoai on August 26, 2011 at 5:49pm
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman To be totally honest, I find the coin moro funny not that I don't find seriousness in them because it's not important to me, after all I'm a Fiilipino Muslim, a Mindanaoan Iranun descended from my long long ancestry that my Malay heritage tells me is easily traced to our prophet Muhammad, I'm so proud of this, and you guys think I'll trash this so that I can be prouder as a moro? MashaAllah!
    August 21 at 11:57pm · 
  • Arata Wata Like I said at the outset, we will invite people and discuss what to call the Bangsa. The few Pilandoks here in this discussion thread can not decide for the entire Bangsa.This is goint to be a process. 

    I am thinking that the next step is with your permissions, I will make a PDF file of this discussion thread and we will have a few thousands hard copy print out, like a newspaper. We will distribute prints to the major centers of the Muslim areas, most importantly to the schools, radio and tv stations. We'll have people talk about it.

    I will create a website so we can put all the discussion materials, for every Pasbal, Padol and Pakbol to read, where they can also post their comments. Pissbook is good but this thread may not stay long or maybe covered with other issues.

    PLEASE JOIN US. 
    THIS IS OUR PEACEFUL REVOLUTION. 
    BE PART OF HISTORY. 
    BE PART OF NATION-BUILDING OR REBUILDING...

    Assallam Wallaikhom Warahmatullah!
    August 22 at 12:01am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman A 1521 moro? Dr Jose Rizal may have been wrong saying moro existed prior to 1521, and I can relate to many instances just listening to darangen just as Ed says of them, this moro coin is unacceptable to a lot of us Mindanaoans. During the 60's, anyone from Mindanao are slurred moros whenever in a fight with Luzon and Visayan kids our age, it doesn't matter if Muslim or Christian. They slur all of us moros, so we get into brawls. Check your history guys!
    August 22 at 12:05am · 
  • Arata Wata We start by first, enumerating the criteria for the new name... and I have two. I wanna say it now.

    1. Must not be religion-based.

    We should invite our "lost" Bangsa, the ones we lost to the Spaniards like the Cabilis, Niris, Pelaezes. They are assets of the Bangsa. We can accommodate 2 religions in the Bangsa.

    2. Must emphasize our common heritage with our Malay brothers, including the Filipino Christians.

    Again, that's just mine.
    August 22 at 12:06am · 
  • Datu Ali Al-Moro hope you have all the historical back-ups so you will not alienate historians.
    August 22 at 12:07am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman And my grandfather Sultan Alauya Alonto, he was a commonwealth senator and my late uncle, his son Senator Ahmad Domie Alonto, says moro is a slur, you people think I'll turn my back on their account? No God damn way either!
    August 22 at 12:22am · 
  • Datu Ali Al-Moro Brethren, I wish I shall not be misconstrued that I am returning back the pun, let alone the mockery that Moro is a slur when I say that “Filipino” has NO ETHNICITY with respect to the Archipelago now called Philippines. It has no ethnic attachment either with respect to the place-of-origin of those who originally owned it. Renato Constantino has corrected our perception that Filipino originally belonged to those full-blooded Spaniards who were born here and them who lived and worked here in the Philippines. Constantino had this:

    “…At the top of the social pyramid were the Peninsulares, Spaniards who are from Spain and who were given the choice positions in the government. Next in line were the Creoles or Insulares, Spaniards born in the Philippines who considered themselves sons of the country. THEY WERE THE ORIGINAL FILIPINOS.” - Renato Constantino, The Philippines: A Past Revisited, p. 124

    On the other hand, Filipino is even more lost of ethnicity with respect to the place-of- origin of those who owned it before because one cannot find such thing existent in Spain both before and more so nowadays either. Needless to say then that the Peninsulares and the Insulares, the original owner of Filipino, had gone back to Spain and lived as Spaniards than as Filipinos back home. Therefore, both by jus sanguinis (right of blood) and jus soli (right of soil), Filipino has no ethnicity either here in the Philippines and in Spain.

    Instead, before appropriating “Filipino” from its original owners through scholarly feats and tons of rationalization by propagandists and nationalists e.g. Dr. Jose Rizal, (by the way Dr. Jose Rizal was not a full-blooded “Filipino” i.e. native as he had a Chinese lineage), the natives of the north were just relegated as “Indios” by their own Spanish colonial masters. Of course, the Spaniards had all those derogatory connotations against the natives when they called them so. It’s that being painted all over their bodies the Spaniards mistakenly identified them as the same Indians of the American continents. And the natives knew about it as slur. Besides, Spaniards during early stage of colonization had nothing in their vocabulary such a thing as “Filipino.” It is also a grave misnomer, a sacrilege of historical scholarship that Lapu-Lapu is labeled as the “first Filipino martyr.” It’s that it was such national and religious proselytizing that steered Lapu-Lapu’s stance and routed Magellan to death. 

    But Jose Rizal and his compatriots later appreciated it after having watched a show of Indians when they were at Madrid. Why? Because Indians or Indios were not that bad way that the Spaniards used to portray them of. This was what inspired Jose Rizal to write a piece about it entitled “Indios Bravos.”

    But the acceptance of Indios did not last long nor remained among the propagandists. It is because it would not serve their propaganda mission’s goal and objectives. These reformers, apart from Bonifacio’s ultimate aim i.e. dismemberment, nay, decolonization of the Philippines from Spain, instead longed for the retention of the Philippines as a Spanish colony provided natives shall be granted equal representation to Spanish Cortes as the Filipinos (Spaniards) were.

    As such, Filipino has to be appropriated and retained to gain support from Peninsulares and Insulares who were also liberal minded. It was retained even further to these days because colonial machineries were in unison with the intention of its retention. But I don’t think either that Bonifacio thought of something in defense of Filipino as a nationality when KKKs made the Cry of Balintawak. Had Bonifacio pay heed to the apprehension of Jose Rizal, perhaps the KKK revolution would never be realized. 

    Meanwhile, It’s true that we all belong to a common race i.e. Malay stock but such racial commonality among us was struck down and severed permanently by the two people’s choices vis-à-vis colonization which dictated and determined their respective historical fate i.e. one succumbed to colonization while the other resisted resolutely the onslaught of successive scourge of colonial experiences. To that effect, There have been a Filipino as the “offspring of colonization” and Moro the “brainchild of anti-colonialsm.”

    By this, Muslims of Mindanao i.e. Moros were dabbed as the “unconquered people of the south” while Filipinos were referred to as the “conquered natives of the north” of the Archipelago. Now, juxtaposing “Muslim” i.e. the “unconquered” with “Filipinos” i.e. the “conquered” into “Muslim Filipinos” will make the phrase in utter shamble as you will have mutually repulsive terms, one repulsing the other and vise versa. And that invites laugh from historians since only in magnetism that unlike poles attract each other.

    And by the way Filipino is even more slur than it was before these current times because Oxford Dictionary recently defined it as “domestic helper.” Add Muslim to the phrase and we shall have a “Muslim domestic helper” which is a slur even more. (Sorry Sarah Balabagan if that’s for you. But it’s not for you this time as you burned your soul with Born Again dogma.

    And as to 50 years prior to the coming of Spaniards i.e. 1521-50 that Moro had been existent; Rizal most of the time make the works of Antonia de Morga his references whenever Rizal invoked “Filipino” past glories prior to Hispanization of the Archipelago in response to racist Spanish authors. And by the way, there is no such a thing as “pre-Hispanic Filipinos.”
    August 22 at 2:51am · 
Permalink Reply by Amomoai on August 26, 2011 at 5:49pm
  • Datu Ali Al-Moro ‎Arata Wata, would you think Filipinos would relinquish their "Filipinohood" just to give in to such an idea of yours? You say that Moros have permanently gained the animosity of Filipinos due to such term so Moros still groping hopelessly for their RSD. You believe such prejudice and discrimination would eventually change should such envisioned "common nationality" is contrived? They would instead say what the f___k and shoo us with to hell with your wishful thinking. Anyway, congratulation for having come up with such a novel idea.
    August 22 at 3:02am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman I don't know brothers but I'm not lost, anybody around here say he or she is lost? I'm fine, definitely not lost
    August 22 at 3:27am · 
  • Reynaldo Rayhan-Reyes ‎"Philippines is cursed from inception, thus, 'Filipino' is a cursed identity", according to Atty. Elly Velez Pamatong. The Bangsamoro youth believe its truism because a cursed nation can never prosper and hope to progress. Today, the Philippines is more than a "sickman of Asia." In a propaganda video now circulating in Facebook, it is bruited about that "next to Manny Pacquiao, the biggest attraction in the Philippines is the sex tours because it is a country of prostitutes." To us, this is sickening!
    August 22 at 3:45am · 
  • Arata Wata ‎Datu Ali Al-Moro, you are just getting back at me right? Pagarikolay, did I ever say anywhere in this discussion that we would want the Filipinos to change name as well? Please reread from the top. And I didn't solely come up with the idea. As you can see there are many of us who are in favor of change. For the first time in the history of the Bangsa, we are seriously and openly discussing the name, albeit very few of us right now. But we're hoping this will culminate into something fruitful.

    I don't know which part of the Philippines you live but look at the faces of your Filipino neighbors when you loudly proclaim that you are proudly MOROs. Why not also try proudly Moklo!

    Anyways, as I keep saying over and over and over again. Some of us will remain proudly Moros and proudly Molko, or forever Moros, and that's perfectly fine. We are not even gonna ask the liberation fronts to change their names. You don't change name while in the middle of the game.
    August 22 at 5:19am · 
  • Datu Ali Al-Moro ‎Arata Wata, You just helplessly and blindly accept that you are what the Filipinos insultingly look at you though it is not? take note that these "banyagas" who insolently utter "Muklos" reside, live, eat, survive in the lands of the "Muklos." shame on them. And you just take what they want to portray of you? It's not in the name which is wrong, it's the psyche of this banyagas and the banyagas themselves who are wrong. and you take it all from them? your fate is still dictated by them? what a tragedy on your part!
    August 22 at 5:32am · 
  • Arata Wata What we are saying Datu Ali Al-Moro is that instead of defending the indefensible because its based on falsehood, why not just drop it and take a good name, like what the Indios have wisely done with theirs? Now, you want me to ask the Indios to change their perceptions of you. I can't even convince you to stop lying to yourself.
    August 22 at 5:55am · 
  • Datu Ali Al-Moro indefensible? based on falsehood? historical accounts about it were just but lies? who are you to question it? are you of the caliber of Saleeby? Gowing? Majul? Mastura? where is your piece to prove?
    August 22 at 6:06am · 
  • Datu Ali Al-Moro If that is what they think of me as a Moro, then so be it. That ain't bothers me; nor distracts me either. In short, pakelam ko. but let them see my taunting middle finger dangling right on their face.
    August 22 at 6:15am · 
  • Reynaldo Rayhan-Reyes Datu Ali, according to Atty. Pamatong, the Filipinos being cursed from the beginning can never prosper and progress as a nation because the cursed nation-Filipinas (now Philippines) can never produce honest forthright leaders because of the curse it carries until today. It is the Indios-transfofrmed Filipinos that have to be exorcised by changing identity. Otherwise, they will always be known in history as "corrupt", "housemaids",ect. for producing criminal and corrupt presidents, like Aguinaldo, Marcos, Arroyo and what else in the future. Pamatong said, "...Moros should be proud because you have a national identity connoting bravery and heroism." That's why the Bangsamoro youth are proud of our identity throughout the world now. Bangsamoro Ramadan Mubarak!
    August 22 at 6:30am · 
  • Tommy Romuros Pangcoga Brothers Reynaldo Rayhan-Reyes,Datu Ali Al-Moro and Erynion Eiryneon Wave, enjoy the discussion. The ones on the other side of the fence are good men from good and ancient families. They have my I enjoyed the exchanges I had with them. It's like who among us is selling the best "apang" (native hotcake). And they have my highest regard.
    August 22 at 6:51am · 
  • Reynaldo Rayhan-Reyes Brother Romuros, you have only to read history books written not by Spaniards and Filipinos to know the truth. According to Konrad Adenauer, "History is the sum total of the things that could have been avoided," Just as, if Philippine colonialism, had not been there would be no Filipino-Moro war in Mindanao. Bangsamoro Ramadan Mubarak!
    August 22 at 7:00am · 
Permalink Reply by Amomoai on August 26, 2011 at 5:50pm
  • Eiryneon Wave Bai, I can't "like" huhuhu! But, I think you're right, RRR, that instead of being ashamed of the identity "MORO," we must be proud of it. Ergo, no need to change it. As you say, Maurus is derived from the Muslim rulers from Mauretania who ruled Spain for 872 years. That to me is majestic. But maurus came to mean black because Maurus are predominantly black people. As to other negative connotations and denotations that we are wrangling about the term moro can easily be dismissed as only biases and prejudices of Spain, not to menting Spain's insecurities to the courageous Moro people. So if I were to apply "Chinese" to being stingy which in Islam is a bad thing, would that force the chinese to change their identity?
    August 22 at 7:02am via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave And with all due respects, changing the name Bangsamoro at this point in time is not helping the Peace Process, either. Bangsamoro identity is the pin that holds the 13 tribes together in their quest for RSD.
    August 22 at 7:15am via mobile · 
  • Ardishier Muallam Arsad Spaniards today must be drowning in their laughters! Filipinos are now proud of being Filipinos and Moros are now fighting also for Bangsamoro. Both will fight it out to retain their Spanish-given names, what a historical legend we have been? But what's in a name anyway compared to the avalanche of problems we need to address urgently? Will changing our respective names at this point in time bring about the much needed transformation like a shaman-prescribed remedy for a perennial sick person?
    August 22 at 7:16am · 
  • Jun Macarambon everyone's argument has points.... all said, i still declare my Identity as a proud Bangsamoro .... and im with Millions of Muslims in Southern Philippines who accepted Bangsamoro as its Identity and Nationality. I Thank the two moro liberation front MNLF and MILF who mainstreamed the Bangsamoro Identity to the World. As a Moro Youth ... and future of this Moro Land, we will continue to push Bangsamoro Identity and Self-Determination. If you can't accept this new revolution nor birth of Bangsamoro Nationhood... Inshallah. Im sorry... but this is the current trend. I still do respect the idea of new name ... but until there will be someone who will organize bangsa-newname liberation front to mainstream the name like what Nur Misuari and Late Hashim Salamat do for Bangsamoro. This new name is just discussion and prolly be a tool for our enemy to divide and conquered us. So far theres no name/identity who can unite the 13 Islamized tribe in MinSuPala (Mindanao, Sulu and Palawan).
    August 22 at 7:31am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman By referral, 1521 moro will deny me my heritage that should trace my lineage to our prophet Muhammad, as a Muslim that is all that from my end is important, and I can claim sovereignty declare myself a free man ruler of my land clinging to just my heritage, I cannot do that as a moro, and I don't need to take it from anyone outside of my flock, why would I? Give one reason convince why I should and why, really because I've been to so many difficult difficult very challenging situations, my heritage mind you had been my amulet ward off temptation and surrender my dignity! One day we will face each other mano a mano, until then stop insulting us, bewail us people who are truly conscious of who we are, definitely not moros!
    August 22 at 7:32am · 
  • Jun Macarambon I wonder if its in Quran if we called ourselves Bangsamoro as named by our colonizers .... we cant be a great Nation like others.
    August 22 at 7:32am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman No idea Jun but what is wrong identifying ourselves as Muslims, like in the Balkans they would rather die than give up their Islamic heritage!
    August 22 at 7:37am · 
  • Jun Macarambon who's insulting? i beg, please do not insult who identify with Bangsamoro ... the Bangsamoro word evolves from derogatory terms to a Political identity of Muslims in southern philippines.
    August 22 at 7:38am · 
  • Tommy Romuros Pangcoga Muslim is islamic. Moro is nationalistic.
    August 22 at 7:42am · 
  • Jun Macarambon Even i identify myself with Bangsamoro Nationality .... i still retain my heritage as a Maranao and same with other muslim tribes in southern philippines.
    August 22 at 7:42am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman After the peace process, we can always haggle this with the Mujaheedins, I don't think you can have 15% from all MNLF MILF combined not to agree we should no longer use the moro coin, I bet you there will be majority consensus do away with the moro name. Jun, read the thread there was no word to describe I am insulting, check your wordings man!
    August 22 at 7:43am · 
  • Jun Macarambon I can be a Muslim and at the same time be a Moro.
    August 22 at 7:44am · 
  • Tommy Romuros Pangcoga ‎"One day we will face each other mano a mano, until then stop insulting us, bewail us people who are truly conscious of who we are, definitely not moros!" - this is what jun is referring to..
    August 22 at 7:45am · 
  • Ardishier Muallam Arsad Anyway, what name are you suggesting instead of Bangsamoro, Mr. Aminullah Alonto Lucman?
    August 22 at 7:48am · 
Permalink Reply by Amomoai on August 26, 2011 at 5:51pm
  • Bai Macadampas Inaya I can be nothing, still, that's what I am.. I am nothing.
    August 22 at 7:51am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Be happy with what you are leave us be Jun, Tommy, moro word will not let you in in Mecca, who would know of moro in the Mid East, Muslims from Mindanao is the name I prefer, Iranun my elders say is my Malay heritage, moro is an affront, why would I not keep their memories, illustrious elders of mine who gave up so much because they loved our people, and why would I take advise from people I don't know from Adam, surrender my heritage?
    August 22 at 7:53am · 
  • Jun Macarambon ‎Aminullah Alonto Lucman - I wonder if you've asked this question to your relative in MILF Peace Panel - Robert Maulana Marohombsar Alonto and Datu Abul Khayr Alonto who is co-founder of MNLF as Vice-Chairman of MNLF Central Committee.
    August 22 at 7:56am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Let us not be blind to reality we are being taken for fools, behind our back are heckles, they want us removed from real issues so that we are lost, a 1521 moro? No sir
    August 22 at 7:56am · 
  • Ardishier Muallam Arsad kayo muna...
    August 22 at 7:57am · 
  • Eiryneon Wave Heheheeee
    August 22 at 8:02am via mobile · 
  • Jun Macarambon Am I a less Muslim if I am a Bangsamoro? Is being a Bangsamoro tantamount to surrender our rich heritage ... as Iranun, Maranao, Tausug, Maguindanao, Sama, Kaagan.. etc.?
    August 22 at 8:07am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Yes we debate like men, and same as I will never give up my stance as having been with those early to fight, I fought Marcos at the very ends of the earth, we were the ones who was asked to come up with the name MNLF, it was Bobby who won hence the MNLF. Yes, it was a name to call our outfit, I never deny this. Our brothers in the movement knew the consequences. I argue that our elders say moro is an affront, our grandfather and uncle who were patriarchs of our family says so, but then we were confronted by a criminal government led by a crazy despot, the issue was the Jabidah and what the govt want is for us to forget all about it. If we continue to play in their hands, there's no way we can get the right justice we seek. It is just a liberation front to deal with a criminal govt, but make this our name as people? I see no justice in this, we shall have given up our claim as a sovereign people forgetting our Malay heritage, and moro is not part of our Malay heritage.
    August 22 at 8:17am · 
  • Datu Ali Al-Moro Muslim and Moro are inseparable to each other, though the former is greater than the later. Hadn't our forbears been Muslims, they will never be called Moros, but Indios instead. Hadn't it been for Islam, we shall not be called Moros. As I said, Moros referred once to the national,nay, much broader regional identity of Muslims in SEA.None from among our Mujahideen would choose to die defending his/her Bangsa without invoking the Name of Allahu ta'ala. Muslims are the global nationality of those who adhere to Islam. But Allahu ta'ala made us into nations and tribes that we may know one another and who must excel in piety. (Qur'an 49:13) As such, none can claim racial superiority nor royalty except through righteousness. Iranun can't be a nation for there are other similar communities or tribes who share common traits yet are not identified as Iranun. These were the other 12 ethno-linguistic tribes. Nation is composed of several tribes. Iranun is a tribe, Bangsamoro is a nation.
    August 22 at 8:19am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman My goodness, brother you should check well your source, Iranun is a nation extending from Indonesia, Malaysia and Mindanao. They were rulers of their enclave, Sultan Kudarat you mean you deny he was an Iranun ruler?
    August 22 at 8:25am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman In the name of Allah most merciful, all Muslims are equal, there is no distinction. In times of conflict, we normally seek our elders rulers of our land for solace, and then in the name of Allah we declare Jihad fi Sabilillah through our elders, and then we fight, that's it!
    August 22 at 8:28am · 
  • Tommy Romuros Pangcoga Given that Iranon (i like the sound of it by the way) is our national identity, how now do we see it being received by our brothers and sisters on the western and island side of the bangsa? can we sell it to them?
    August 22 at 8:32am · 
Permalink Reply by Amomoai on August 26, 2011 at 5:52pm
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Sure, you go to Sabah and you meet Iranuns, Minangkabaw in Indonesia and many more places, our claim to sovereignty if ever we choose to be independent will be our Malay heritage, and we have treaties signed testament to our being sovereign people, well documented. But as moros, can we claim Sabah as ours as moro? The Malaysians will not accede to it, but as part of our greater Malay heritage, no problem.
    August 22 at 8:39am · 
  • Jun Macarambon Only the Sultanate of Sulu can claim for Sabah.
    August 22 at 8:46am · 
  • Eiryneon Wave It all boils down to claiming Sabah after all.
    August 22 at 8:47am via mobile · 
  • Jun Macarambon Is this Malay heritage is the concept of Malay Race?
    August 22 at 8:50am · 
  • Eiryneon Wave By being not moro, do we actually want to unpin the 13 tribes to become tribalistic once again?
    August 22 at 8:53am via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave How are we going to convince our Filipino brethen to love and respect us by simply saying, "Hey friends, we are of the same Malay heritage, therefore let us love and respect each other"?
    August 22 at 8:55am via mobile · 
  • Haider Isnaji bro,whether you like it or not, the word ' Moro' has been our national identity.Changing it to any other term brings more disadvantage than advantage to our struggle. The indios have been trying hard to change it to other term such as 'Muslim in the Philippines' beacause the 'word' Moro' has become a unifying factor for the 13 ethnic tribes and it is widely known internationally as brave muslim people in Minsupala. Even our brothers, the Highlanders, are proud to be called moros even though they are not muslims. Come on man...stretch your imagination a little longer and you may find the word MORO, even though given by the Spaniards to us, makes you feel proud as an unconquered inhabitants of MOROLAND. Why don't you think of something more productive like how can we all go to the streets in cities all over the countryas one united MOROS to shout and demand Independence from the INDIOS. You seem like a very brilliant MORO!
    August 22 at 8:56am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman No no no Eiryneon, I'm saying the Jabidah, who says we are claiming Sabah? It is the Jabidah incident that sparked the war in Mindanao, who was behind this? Marcos who tried secretly invading, supported by the country's oligarchy in cahoots with some Indonesian generals wanted to part with Sabah, we were the ones who suffered and fought for it brick by brick because we were against it, let's be clear of this. If we find any of the claimant to have also been part of the sinister scheming, they too will be made to answer, until then Jun, we are also descended from Sulu wag kang nakakainsulto!
    August 22 at 8:57am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman OO Jun, our Malay heritage is the concept of the Malay race, ano ka ba?
    August 22 at 8:58am · 
  • Eiryneon Wave Do we really want to beg for their love and respect? Or are we fighting with them because we want to have our own Right to Self Determination fulfilled?
    August 22 at 8:58am via mobile · 
Permalink Reply by Amomoai on August 26, 2011 at 5:52pm
  • Ardishier Muallam Arsad After all is said and done, it is still about reviving the so-called royal heritage, royal families, royal class, etc. Well folks... here is a ROYAL TRU-ORANGE FOR YOU, HAVE A NICE DAY!
    August 22 at 8:59am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Tribes have absolutely no connection to the Jabidah incident, this is the war crime issue and Jabidah is our goal to parlay with the ICC prove the criminal behavior of govt that killed so many of my people!
    August 22 at 9:02am · 
  • Jun Macarambon Sorry... I dont know if you are descended from Sulu. Im not insulting you... hahays. tsk.
    August 22 at 9:03am · 
  • Eiryneon Wave Heheheee! Bulls eye, tol.
    August 22 at 9:03am via mobile · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman And seriously violated the territorial integrity of Malaysia, a serious violation according to UN laws! We have our rights Eiryneon, just await the passing of the Rome Statute, this will make things really nasty and so telling!
    August 22 at 9:04am · 
  • Ardishier Muallam Arsad We have been taken for a long 169 comments-ride, tol.hehehe
    August 22 at 9:06am · 
  • Eiryneon Wave It has no connection, but the identity Moro has actually binds the 13 tribes together into one entity. Why dislodged it, now? It is not timely. Discussion of name-changing should only be done with full force once we are already freed from the clutches of philippine colonialism.
    August 22 at 9:08am via mobile · 
  • Jun Macarambon I just want to clarify about your Malay Heritage... because Malay race is a concept proposed by the German scientist Johann Friedrich Blumenbach or brown race -http://en.wikipedia.org/wi ki/Malay_race . So what do you propose? one big nation/state of Malay race? do we muslims in southern philippines join with malaysian? indonesian and other neighboring malay race state? nor we called ourselves malaysian? indonesian?
Permalink Reply by Amomoai on August 26, 2011 at 5:53pm
  • Eiryneon Wave I enjoyed it, nonetheless, tol. You know, i love "trivialities"! Heheheeee
    August 22 at 9:10am via mobile · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman I'm talking about war crimes issue, if you please brother Ardisher! Nothing to do with royalties, yes do you know whose blood were shed? I assure you they were blood of real royalties who never cower from challenges, if you are from Mindanao, you will know this.
    August 22 at 9:10am · 
  • Eiryneon Wave When will the war crime issue be put to a full stop? How?
    August 22 at 9:13am via mobile · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman I'm talking about justice and giving justice to our being people violated, what do you mean from what source you have this german Kraut? My source is the tarsila, but you will not know this of course
    August 22 at 9:14am · 
  • Ardishier Muallam Arsad Naunahan na kita bro Aminullah Alonto Lucman. Please read my 'break' post. Salam.
    August 22 at 9:16am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Do you know why the senate is to pass the Rome Statute? That is what I am referring to Eiryneon Wave
    August 22 at 9:18am · 
  • Jun Macarambon I dont understand... if this 13 tribes who binds together because of Islam and to preserve, protect the ancestral lands, thus also accepted the Bangsamoro as Identity will cause to lost our heritage? kung walang MNLF ... bka ubos na tyo ng ilaga.
    August 22 at 9:18am · 
  • Eiryneon Wave I don't know. Enlighten me, please, sir.
    August 22 at 9:23am via mobile · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Oh my, you feel so importantly as if tied to what name, no argument on that, at the day's end you are what you are. I have no problem with that, you can call your name whatever you please, it doesn't matter. We are a democracy and I reserve my right to make my argument, but what I want is justice and I am going to pursue them if only to keep the memory of my late father alive, none of you or even this govt can deny me this, that's it! The Rome Statute will make our country be part of the ICC, so from there we will prosecute war criminals, that is what I am referring about Eiryneon Wave
    August 22 at 9:29am · 
Permalink Reply by Amomoai on August 26, 2011 at 5:54pm
  • Eiryneon Wave Thank you, sir. But how can the Rome Statute helps us in our quest for our Right to Self Determination? Who are these war criminals that need to be prosecuted in light of this quest?
    August 22 at 9:32am via mobile · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Self-determination is on-going that is for the peace process to handle, Jabidah is a war crime issue, the Maguindanao incident is a war crime issue, and who are the people behind all these? They are the ones to be prosecuted at the Hague, and then we simply move on Eiryneon.
    August 22 at 9:36am · 
  • Eiryneon Wave What can be had in prosecuting them? What's the benefit to us?
    August 22 at 9:42am via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave Our country (the Philippines?) being member of the ICC should be hard put to prosecute war criminals because Jabidah and Maguindanao issues are perpetrated by same country (Philippines?).
    August 22 at 9:45am via mobile · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Are you kidding me Eiry? You are like telling me what do we do with carjackers after reintroducing the death penalty, do I need to hanker on that one too Eiry? No Eiry, may I just be clearer on this issue, the govt in these times were led by public officials, they are the ones to go to the gallows, govt is by referrals only, people who run them are the ones to answer, why would govt be prosecuted? But of course, passing the Roman Statute will prompt govt actions to assist in hunting war criminals. Like if GMA is to be tried by the Hague, govt may have to organize arresting officers surrender them to the ICC for prosecution. In the case of Marcos, at least no more hero's burial for him and those in cahoots with him will be the one to face trial at the Hague, like the Sarajevo Serbian butcher Ratko Mladic now facing prosecution at the Hague..
    August 22 at 9:54am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman If you know about the Balkans the Bosnian experience, it is it Eiry
    August 22 at 9:56am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Jun Macarambon, are you related to Cong BMJ? Or a different Macarambon, if you're not sorry din akala ko kamaganak kita, I'm always loose with close kin, my apologies
    August 22 at 10:04am · 
  • Eiryneon Wave No I'm not kidding. I'm plain asking, because I don't see any relation between Rome Statute and our quest for Muslim Mindanao freedom. What it can do however is serve as a deterrent for war crimes in the future since all the perpetrators of Jabidah et al seems to be already dead.
    August 22 at 10:19am via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave And no, I don't know about the Balkans and Bosnian, but I am a fast learner. I appreciate any input. Thank you.
    August 22 at 10:21am via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave And my understanding is, government can be sued and persecuted. Otherwise, international dispute is difficult to solve.
    August 22 at 10:26am via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave Why is there a need to prosecute the government? Because it is in line to our quest for RSD. If we can prove that our government committed war crimes to us Mindanaon, and we can assert that we are not part of the Philippines all along, we will have a stronger case in any international arbitration.
    August 22 at 10:29am via mobile · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Well, to be plaid about what stance to take why people become enmeshed with rebellion is because of reasons, sometimes they are crucial. In our case the Jabidah incident was the primeval cause why war happened in Mindanao, the Rome statute will allow our case be heard by the international community via the War Crimes Tribunal to be able to reason with our case. If this govt fail to heed our quest prosecute war criminals, then we seek amelioration with the UN body, demand for independence, then it's up to us.
    August 22 at 10:30am · 
Permalink Reply by Amomoai on August 26, 2011 at 5:54pm
  • Eiryneon Wave Thank you, sir. That's more clearer. Can't we also use as ace card the unlawful annexation of our land during the sell out in 1898?
    August 22 at 10:40am via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave Thank you, sir. That's more clearer. Can't we also use as ace card the unlawful annexation of our land during the sell out in 1898?
    August 22 at 10:41am via mobile · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Prosecuting govt is like taking aim at the car instead of the carjacker, the car is the evidence tool/reason for the crime, it is the carjacker we aim to prosecute, the incessant cry for the restoration of the death penalty had been the impunity of the crime of carjacking, reason why we are demanding that death penalty be reintroduced to be able to discourage crimes of this nature now too menacing for ordinary laws to handle.
    August 22 at 10:42am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman Govt can be sued sure, if govt may be lax in pursuing the object of dispensing with the juridical attribution to uncovering crimes of impunity. But if govt take the stance of leading to uncover crimes of impunity, then govt may not be held liable.
    August 22 at 10:48am · 
  • Eiryneon Wave Thank you, sir. That's more clearer. Can't we also use as ace card the unlawful annexation of our land during the sell out in 1898?
    August 22 at 10:48am via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave No, sir. Carjacking's relationship to the car is not akin to the war crimes to the government. The government committed war crimes. While car, err? What? Did the car at fault that it was carjacked?
    August 22 at 10:53am via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave The relationship of Carjacking to car is not akin to war crimes to government. The government committee the crime, but it is not the fault of the car that it was carjacked.
    August 22 at 10:56am via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave The relationship of Carjacking to car is not akin to war crimes to government. The government committee the crime, but it is not the fault of the car that it was carjacked.
    August 22 at 10:58am via mobile · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman In this case, government may not be liable in the case of the Noynoy govt
    August 22 at 11:05am · 
  • Aminullah Alonto Lucman What is RSD Eiryneon?
    August 22 at 11:13am · 
  • Eiryneon Wave There's a glitch in my net. Thank you, sir for your patient explanations to this humble layman. I learn a lot.
    August 22 at 11:17am via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave RSD for me is independence, since we are a nation: Bangsamoro, of which the only lacking between the 13 tribes comprising it, is our common language, but we can use Tagalog for the time being. How about you, sir, what form of RSD do you prefer?
    August 22 at 12:04pm via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave Nonoy's govt ie philippine is still liable for crimes committed during which time Nonoy was not even born. Take for example the war crimes committed by the Japanese Soldiers during ww2- who paid the damages to the war victims, especially to the Comfort Women? The Japanese Soldiers who are mostly dead? No. Their living relatives? No. The same is also true of the Jabida massacre et al, that were crimes of the state, so the state has to be liable even the leadership changes hands. This is where our concept of Bangsamoro nationhood derives its strength. But as long as we do not bring the issue under the international scrutiny, the dream of independence is hard to fulfill.
    August 22 at 12:28pm via mobile · 
  • Rayyan Makno ‎@Almoro: I find ur reasoning w/ Edris not analogous 2 d point--urs is veering away. If Edris is named Edris by his adversaries, theres no offense even f they they r thinking of bad things abt him--he is IN TRUTH Edris. But F people call him an African black, 8 will b a GREAT LIE if he is a native Maranao because der s no connection. On that Rizal's write-up, Rizal s a Christian speaking in the prevailing language, Spanish, who referred to all Muslims as Moros past present and a century hence. If 1 reads bet. d lines, Rizal s dispelling d general notion that Muslims (whom they called Moros) r knowledgeable that 1 was found 2 have been translating....Rizal had to use Moro 2 b understood easily. He is not proving the point that the Mindanaoan Muslims had been called Moros before Magellan. Ur argument s misleading. It would clarify things f you post d whole text.
    August 22 at 1:38pm · 
Permalink Reply by Amomoai on August 26, 2011 at 5:55pm
  • Rayyan Makno ‎@Haider Isnaji: While we all clamor n support an Islamic state, there s no MORO STATE yet. It is either a blatant LIE or a daydream to state that there is a BANGSAMORO nation. You do not jump to conclusion speak on behalf of the more than 10 million Filipino Muslims who are not members of the MNLF, the MILF, and the handful of proud Moros. The ARMM, the locla governments, and other Muslims were not MOROS as der was NEVER a REFERENDUM or CONSULTATION that they agreed 2 b called Moros. @ Jun Macarambon, dinka masususb a giya MORO na inisalio ko Kandato sa inged maana Kazusolotan a ayabo malalamba a paninggalan o mga loks a misasakum tano ko Islam a pizasapaan niran sa piyagaladiran a sinta sa sadun sa minasaon na lagid o riopt a orakamanok, piotol a balagun, piarung a solo, ago puda masakit a sinta. Osambiinioron so BANGSAMORO na miabinasa kakuada ko ayan. @Aminolah Lucman: I find 8 absurd 4 d claimants of Sabah bcoz F indeed Sabah belongs to us, why we add it to a state as d Phil. w a CORRUPT government while we r fighting 2 b independent. MKKK @Eiryneon: Islam forbids LYING...how can u say WE ARE a NATION (Bangsamoro nation) when we do not even have an independent state of our own, not even a real autonomy? U r dreaming, my brother, like Haider. Not yet, my brother, we r still starting and strangely enough, MNLF Nur Misuari had return to thr GRP as former head of ARMM and MILF is now negotiating. R u thinking that P Noynoy and d MILF are negotiating 2 exchange AMBASSADORS or to trade between themselves as independet states and nations. I find u my brothers as UNREALISTIC...WAKE UP!
    August 22 at 2:10pm · 
  • Eiryneon Wave Rayyan Makno, define "NATION."
    August 22 at 2:19pm via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave Maybe you are confused between a "NATION" and a "STATE"? Have you taken the basic political science course, or not?
    August 22 at 2:21pm via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave You're allegation of me lying, simply has no basis because we don't even agree on the definition of "NATION," am i right?
    August 22 at 2:23pm via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave And of course, i am not dreaming, because my definition of nationhood coincide with some writers of political science books, or maybe you're using fictional books? What is your basis, rayyan makno?
    August 22 at 2:26pm via mobile · 
  • Rayyan Makno Thanks for the add, admin as I find this place interesting.@Jun Macarambon: Which do u prefer to be IDENTIFIED WITH: As a Malay with a BROWN RACE or as a MORO with a BLACK RACE? Do you hate to be with MUSLIM states?
    August 22 at 2:27pm · 
  • Eiryneon Wave Welcome to the group, rayyan makno.
    August 22 at 2:29pm via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave ‎//identified with: As a Malay with a BROWN RACE or as a MORO with a BLACK RACE? Do you hate to be with MUSLIM states?//

    how does the first part relate to the second part - Isn't the Maurus of Mauretania, albeit black, were also Muslims?
    August 22 at 2:33pm via mobile · 
  • Eiryneon Wave Rayyan Makno, Same with your accusation of us with haider being unreliastic is unfounded, since you don't even understand what "NATION" means, and also the concept behind RSD.
    August 22 at 2:39pm via mobile · 
  • Jun Macarambon Moro is from words Moors which is primarily Berber, Black African and Arab descent from Northern Africa which is also Muslims. The reason we're called Moro is because this Moors territory Al-Andalus (now comprising most of what is now Spain and Portugal) where Spaniards has war with that time. Then when Spaniards arrived in Mindanao met with resistance against the brown race and also muslim ...they dont know what they call us (muslims in southern philippines), so they also call us and label us Moors and then it evolves to Moro.
    August 22 at 3:53pm · 
  • Jun Macarambon The REALITY Now is... theres new development in southern Philippines and that is "Bangsamoro Nationhood" and there's also Statehood when and if the Philippines will grant the Sub-State arrangement which is near to Independence.
    August 22 at 4:03pm · 
Permalink Reply by Amomoai on August 26, 2011 at 5:55pm
  • Rayyan Makno ‎@Jun: The cart before the horse? So there s a new development that hopefully will come to fruition leading to a subsate and a nationhood. But this remains a conjecture bcoz P'Noynoy cannot do it alone with the MILF as der s d Congress, d senate, d MNLF, d Supreme court, d people, and other partise. How could those two people say there s Bangsamoro nation when all s still on d drawing table. Where s der territory and who recognized them? In ur explanation of MORO and MOORS, it s again d CART before d HORSE. Which s ahead, the English word MOORS or the Latin MOROS. Eiryneon brags about his expertise in Political Science but HE CANNOT DEFINE HIS BANGSAMORO NATION: where s its people n territory, who recognized them? Saudi Arabia? Malaysia? Philippines? USA? Russia? Who? What is their NATIONAL LANGUAGE...MORO LANGUAGE?
    August 22 at 5:38pm · 
  • Rayyan Makno Eiryneon, OK, tell us how you understand NATION and define Bangsamoro nation according 2 ur AUTHORITATIVE definition of nation. You LIED about an existing Bangsamoro nation bcoz there s not any ESTABLISHED yet. Bangsamoro was conceived by the MNLF and until now there s noot even a province that u can call a TERRITORY. @Jun; Among us Maranaos or d whole Iranaon people, BANGSA means genealogy, i.e. the genealogical lines or lineage.
    August 22 at 5:51pm · 
  • Rayyan Makno Oh, yes, thank you Brother Eiryneon, for welcoming me 2 d group. I am sorry 4 being frank with u because 8 s my duty as your Muslim brother to point to u your mistakes that is a GREAT LIE. I wish you to be UPRIGHT and TRUTHFUL. OK, define 2 us NATION, what about 8 that WE DO NOT KNOW? I gave u already TWO DEFINITIONS. I'll give u a clue in giving definition: State d word, give its classifcation called genus, its source or origin, and the EXPLANATION. Then give an example. OK, Brother?
    August 22 at 6:00pm · 
Permalink Reply by Amomoai on August 26, 2011 at 5:55pm
  • Arata Wata Whoa! I thought, the philosophical addendum to our name would stop at "Manga Buaya sa Pulangi". Now, we have Royal Thru-Orange as well. A class-struggle? I don't know about that. MKKKKK... 
    Peace brothers and sisters.

    Having a proper name will not only rectify our history and get us closer to our cultural heritage but we also hope that it will contribute to the resolution of the Mindanao conflict through peaceful means. Its kinda revolution from within. That is the original intent of this discussion thread. 

    But ovbiously we're encountering very stiff resistance from the Proud Moros and thats not totally unexpected. We appreciated the devotion, the die-hard mentality. In Basa Iranaon, we say "kiyabologan siranon sa kapmoromoros ini", roughly translate to "moros forever, come what may or whatever". MKK

    I honestly believe that both camps have only the best interests of the Bangsa in their minds. We just differ in our approaches and obviously, how we read and interpret history. I, myself, is not a scholar, debater or philosopher. I am just a freakin' database administrator who happen to know how to strum a guitar. I don't make music, I make noise. MKK

    The real debate battle-ground is not here in Piss Book. Its in the households of Pakbol and Pokndar from Ranao all the way to Julu, if ever we get this darn thing moving on. The handful of us Pilandoks here in Piss Book can not decide the name of the 10 Million Muslims.

    Let me restate the intent in its historical format so everyone can see that its not really that bad and evilish. And if we go this way, we don't have to be very philosophical everytime we talk about our name. We can spare Pilandok and Anaklito the pains of having to understand history and philosopy. MKKK.

    So here we go.

    Long, long time ago...

    - Our anscestors from borneo or wherever they originally came from populated the archipelago, driving the native aborigines into the hinterlands.

    - Islam came to Sulu and then to the big island of Mindanao.

    - It was spreading to the Visayas and Luzon and we were lovey-dovey with the non-Muslim tribes there, when by bad luck Ferdinand Magellan landed into our shores. He was quickly put to rest by our brave brother, Rajah Lapu-Lapu of Mactan.

    - If i may add, just for fun, if Senior Magellan was delayed and Islam reached the Ilocanos and got a strong foothold on the north of the archipelago like the ones in the south, I doubt if the Spaniards could have "discovered the Philippines".

    - The Spaniards returned with vengeance. They forced convert the people, Muslims and non-Muslims into Christianity and enslaved them calling them Indios. 

    - Our brave ancestors in Mindanao, Sulu and Palawan resisted. They put on big fights and even wisely brought the fights on the Spanish colonies up north.

    - The Spaniards got really, really pissed off. They started name calling. 
    Our ancestors got pissed off too. They could not stomach the bad mouthing of the Spaniards and their now-allies, Indios. Our ancestors would go huramentado when called the name MOROs.

    - Then the Americans came and beat the hell out of the evil Spaniards. In the resulting Treaty of Paris, the Spaniards sold the Indios to the Americans at a buck a piece.

    - But guess what? The Americans did not like us either. They continued calling us MOROs and we continued resisting so they say "A good Moro is a dead Moro". Uncle Sam invented the Colt .45 to kill us.

    - When the Americans were leaving, we petitioned the American Congress not to integrate us with the Indios to form the independent Philippines. Of course, in the document we were referred as MOROs, the name Americans were calling us.

    - Senator Alonto stood in the Congress saying that we should not be called MOROs because it really pisses us off. Thereafter, you only hear MOROs in the editorial clips of Max Soliven, Ramon Tulfo and other racist Indios. All government institutions and communications refer to us as Muslims. NO MOROS.

    - Meanwhile, the Indios continue to call us MOROs and "bakbakan" erupts here and there.

    - In the late 1960s, the Philippine government wanted to colonize Sabah and they trained Muslims, mosly Tausogs to be installed as sleeper cells in Sabah, later to initiate a local revolt to incorporate Sabah to the Philippines. Our brave Tausog brothers learned of the evil plan and they were pissed off. They were massacred, except for one who would tell the tale. The liberation fronts were born.

    - We wouldn't be talking here if the organizers of the MNLF had more time to think about the choice of name and its implications. I am not saying the don't have valid reasons in using the detestable brand name. It scared the hell out of the Philippine Constabulary and the Ilagas. I think, the name served its purpose very well.

    - "bakbakan" still ensues when we're called MOROs.

    - Late 1990s or earlier, Proud Moros, Inc. and Proud Moros, Here, There and Everywhere, Inc. came into being fronted mostly by Iranaons. Mind-boggling!

    - Fast forward to Ramadhan, 2011. We wrote this thread hoping to gather more Pilandoks and suggest new names of the Bangsa, thereafter, the 10 Million Muslims will decide. The rest is history... eh, wait. The Proud Moros are still confrontational, they still believe that our enemies would blink and they wanna keep using their Spanish-given name MORO to scare the Indios. In a way, stay loyal to Mama Espanya. 

    I swear that's how it happened (MKK) or how I believe it happened... except for the eye-opener, a very important discovery by Datu Ali Al-Moro that basically says Ferdinand Magellan had an advanced party who convinced our ancestors to call themselves MOROs 50 years ahead of the expedition. Another MKK...

    There was a little brother, who can afford to buy all his siblings the latest iPad2 so they could do piss booking on wireless network and be cool with the other kids. Their old Commodore 64, a 8-bit computer was rarely working and kids on the block were teasing them. They all hated the old Commodore because it was a gift from their late evil step-mother. Oh, they couldn't wait to get their new iPad2 and dump the old Commodore.

    But on their way to the mall, one of the brothers suddenly became philosophical. He said, we don't need the new iPad2. We must stick with the old Commodore. He claimed that he found an old product brochure that says the Commodore was the best for the siblings, even though they all could see it doesn't have a mouse and video display. He kept on saying who needs a mouse, it hurts your wrists and f**k the other kids on the block. What do they know about Commodore? 

    We can call that short story the Parable of the Proud Moros.

    Brothers and sisters, that's my closing argument.

    Assallam Wallaikhom.
    August 22 at 6:04pm · 

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