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MOROS: To be or not to be...
Here's one more Piss Book discussions about the Ingaran a MOROs.
Arata Wata The current barrages of verbal abuses against our Bangsa is obviously an issue of respect. The Indios have come to believe that we don't deserve an ounce of respect and so they can say or do whatever they like without repercussions. Unfortunately, until we get the respect of the Indios, we'll never get justice from them.
How can we gain their respect?
We've been fighting the longest running war of resistance in history and some of us took the brand name MORO to scare them but we may have scared some but we lost the respect of many.
How about if we drop the brand name MORO (after all its not ours) and assume a proper name, a respectable name that emphasizes our commonality with the Indios. Let our new name declare that we are all Malays, that we were all brothers and sisters before the freakin' Spaniards came and spread their religion and mayhem.
Lets break the tribal divide. If we are not the feared and hated MOROs, if we are their Malay brethrens, maybe, they will be more accomodating to our aspirations.
Its easier to give something good to a brother than to an enemy. Don't you think?
Oh, how I hate the name MORO anyways... and so many of us share the same sentiment about this Spanish-given freakin' name.
I believe proper name is important in our struggle.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amomoai on
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Alih Aiyub With due respect, decorum is still the best phrase in expressing our sentiment in this forum!August 18 at 12:43am ·
- Arata Wata And with due respect, tell that decorum stuff to Senator Pan de sal.August 18 at 12:48am ·
Tommy Romuros Pangcoga Well said bro Arata Wata. Had i not extensively read the many history books that narrate about the history of our bangsa, as was my situation 11 years ago, i would have agreed with you to drop the Moro brand name. But now, i allow me to disagree with you. I am a Moro and i am proud to be a Moro. And there are many of us who are proud to call ourselves as Moro. Now, therefore, a divergence has occurred among us. We have effectively justified chiz curls pan de sal's attitude towards us. and we have confirmed that we area indeed divided, even in terms of identity. How can this be resolved now?August 18 at 2:14am ·
Allan Gozon You both have points, I would agree more that we should reassess our strategies...August 18 at 2:42am via mobile ·- Arata Wata Tommy Romuros Pangcoga, you have just essentially said that the late great Senator Ahmad Domocao Alonto, my father who was a Fullbright scholar and obtained his U.S. Master of Laws degree in the 1960s, the countless of other Muslims and generations before us should have known better. That they should have read the history books that you have read and they should have been enlightened of the glory of the Spanish-given name and proudly declared to the world their MOROness just like yourself.
We've always been divided since Day 1 of the use of the brand name by the liberation fronts. Remember, the use of the name was not decided by the Bangsa. It was Nur Missuari who coined the word Bangsa Moro and Abulkhayr Alonto who suggested the use of MORO for the liberation front.
I am speaking of personal experience. I was a student in Manila during the heydays of the Muslim uprising. Marcos was seeking the help of soon-to-be-deposed Libyan leader Muammar Khadafy in signing a peace deal with the Muslim rebels. Although we supported and sympathized with our freedom fighters, we NEVER accepted the brand name MORO and brag about it. We hated the name and we would get mad when called that name. What was wrong then can not be right today. Ondoy and Dionisia still plays MORO-MORO where the virtuous Christians always win over the savage MOROs.
This "Proud MORO, Inc." is a new phenomenon... and its mind-boggling!
MORO is MOKLO in Basa Bisaya. Therefore, you can also claim additional title, a Proud Moklo. Thats really weird!
The way forward is to drop the label. And this time we will talk about a proper and respectable name and get a consensus.
Many nations have changed names often to strenghten their bond with their cultural heritage, to rectify history and break from their colonial past. Myanmar used to be Burma.
Sallam...August 18 at 2:12pm · - Arata Wata If there ever was Proud Moro when I was a student in Manila, I never heard of it. MKKAugust 18 at 2:12pm ·
- Arata Wata I even wrote a song about the Ingaran a Moros. MKKKK...
http://www.youtube.com/sir aoul#p/u/27/W8UqQAsKclM
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August 18 at 4:01pm · ·
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- Tommy Romuros Pangcoga Arata Wata, please refer to Zamboanga Declaration of 1924 and Dansalan Declaration of 1935. You will find the word "moro" there. it was not Prof. Nur Misuari who first coined the word. It was the over 100 moro leaders / declarations of the two declarations who coined it first. I think you can view copies of it in the King Faisal Museum in MSU. Be my guest and check. As to the Moklo thing, there is an analogy i can share with you: Negro is used when respecftully referring to blacks. Nigger is the derogatory version. Negro-nigger: moro-moklo. I am proud to be a moro, i hate that i and my people are called derisively as moklos. i encourage you to see it that way. You would then understand what im trying to mean. On another note, I did not make any conclusion about the venerable senator. my clan is related to him. if not on the diwan lineage, then through the dua ka mbawalo of the old bacolod grande line. my father is the pasasalsila in the family, not me. I salute the venerable senator for his contributiuons in the gains for promoting the rights and welfare of the bangsamoro. I too also wrote an article about my being a proud moro. its entitled, "I am a Moro". It can easily be googled if you want to read it.August 18 at 5:38pm ·
Eiryneon Wave Calling an apple orange does not change the apple's looks, taste, and composition.August 18 at 6:25pm via mobile ·
Gerardo Deleon MUKLO was the term or name given by the phil army to the mujahideen during the mindanao war,out of their frustrations that they re always being ambushed and sustained many casulties..they were always out maneuvered by the MNLF fighting force in the areas of Basilan and Jolo..August 18 at 6:32pm ·
Maded Batara Jr. Earn respect by acting, behaving respectfully. Do not shout that you demand respect. Work hard for it. Our local government units and ARMM is sadly in the top 10 most corrupt government agencies. What was the saying - you deserve the what government you have.August 18 at 6:42pm ·-
Gerardo Deleon hatred and discriminations against the moros of mindanao was already planted in the minds of the indios by their spanish masters,they too inherited a religion of hate, so its dumb if you do good dumb if you dont..August 18 at 6:53pm ·
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Tommy Romuros Pangcoga Maded Batara Jr. may i ask to whom are you addressing your statement?August 18 at 7:02pm ·
- Arata Wata Eiryneon Wave but we are not apples! (or orange, whatever). And instead of refurbishing and repackaging a rotten apple, why don't you just dump it and sell madang. It grows in your backyard. Its truly yours.August 18 at 7:39pm ·
- Arata Wata And here's the problem for the Proud MOROs.
If Magellan did not reach our archipelago. He found his way to India or China. What would you call yourselves? Would you still call yourselves MOROs? The word is not in our vocabulary.
Alleluia! Praise the Lord (of the Rings). If the Spaniards did not come to our archipelago, you would have been a nameless people! Imagine that. MKKKKK... joke!August 18 at 7:43pm · -
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Eiryneon Wave Precisely. You're just repackaging a rotten apple under different name: "madang."August 18 at 8:11pm via mobile ·
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Eiryneon Wave Martin Luther King Jr. was proud of his being NEGRO as he indicated in his famous 1963 "I Have a Dream" speech. But Malcolm X identified with the BLACK. But later generation change it to African American, etc. If the word "Moro" grasp the collective consciousness of the Mindanaon, so be it. If not, then, change it whatever is in vogue. It's just a name. Even I change my name a hundred times, I am still me with my own sets of idiosyncracy and biases. It's up to us Moro to raise our collective pride as a distinct race. By the way, respect is earned, and not readily given.August 18 at 10:18pm via mobile ·
Aminullah Alonto Lucman But you don't call African Americans 'Niggers' tough luck if you're around the Bronx area in NY Eiryneon, but the thing with moro is peculiarly by acceptance will be the undue killing of our true heritage parcel to our being fully rightly descended of the Royal Malay heritage, direct descendants to our prophet Muhammad. One inadvertently sidetrack our history with the coin moro to recognize ours of being an important entity ruler of our lands as merely 1521 people who are moros begging to be recognized, with no history except coming to realm only in 1521. By accepting to be moro, we unduly murder our long history predating 1521, as rulers of our land. We can surely claim sovereignty by just our royal heritage, not by being moro, I absolutely beg to disagree. In fact, our territorial claim hinges on our royalty clause, not by being moro.August 18 at 11:33pm ·-
Aminullah Alonto Lucman Well as far as being MNLF or MILF fine, I can even be Draco the vamp to be able to scare my enemy, but we can always sanely discuss in the future what best we can obtain from this brand names if only to market an idea and hope to live with it in peace, I concur Arata Wata ami!August 18 at 11:38pm ·
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Aminullah Alonto Lucman And all treaties signed between aliens and our rulers were done with our rulers signing, all of it. Show me one that says otherwiseAugust 18 at 11:44pm ·
- Arata Wata i never call my african-american friends negro or nigger. no, freakin' way! did you see how big they are? and i have never seen anyone of them wearing a Proud Negro or Proud Nigger tshirt. mkkkkkkkkk...
yes, respect is earned and it goes both ways. now lets go back to the question of how we gonna earn the respect of the indios. how about if we start by respecting ourselves? frankly, i don't respect anyone who brag about being a Proud MORO. sorry. the name just stinks!!!
your glorified definition or history of the word moro does NOT count. what count is the definition of Anaklito when he call you MORO.
remember Anaklito never went to school and he doesnt understand when you say that you are named after the black North African Moors. quite frankly, i don't see how we can claim that. its not like we wowed the Spaniards when they first encountered our ancestors. its not like we had street lights and grand palaces in Mactan like what the Moors had in Spain. i would also imagine that 400 years ago we had more similarities with hindu india than with north african arabs. we were part of a hindu empire before we became muslims.
if we take out one the one thing that scares them or make them hate us, then thats a step forward.
we need a 2nd revolution. this time, the enemy is ourselves, our hearts and minds. itutuloy... MKKKAugust 19 at 12:06am · - Arata Wata uncle k, we can all be scarry sometimes. you should see my hair when i wake up in the morning. i dont need the moro label to scare my enemy. mkkkkkkkkkk...August 19 at 12:16am ·
- Arata Wata by the way, MKK is Pilandok's equivalent of LOL. it means MiyaKayaKayad. Using Pilandok grammar repeating syntax, you can say MKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK to increase the intensity of your KiyaKayaKayaKayaKayad. its really cool. MKKKAugust 19 at 12:28am ·
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Aminullah Alonto Lucman Yes Arata Wata ami, the 'N' word I wouldn't be as crazy saying that around African Americans with behemoth attributes and hope to be surviving, well alive but bruised and probably maimed Mkkkkk!August 19 at 12:41am ·
Som Defender The Sultanate of Maguindanao and the Sultanate of Sulu have their respective identity and were being recognized by other nations. Proofs of it are the treaties entered into by the respecive Realms with other nations (i.e. Spain & America). Lumping these 2 nations under the name Bangsa Moro will just be another trouble just like the present infighting within the MNLF and in ARMM. Using the term moro, we will never gain respect, beside from that term was coined by the enemies of the 2 Realms the Spaniards, in Maguindanaon it means "one who is having an activity inside a comfort room". Its time for the people of Maguindanao (Mindanao) and Sulu to rethink, reconnect ourselves to our noble identities, rediscover the greatness of our nations that our forefathers have built, thus celebrate our independent past. Insha Allah, we will know of how we will chart our autonomous future while we shall remain committed to a stable present.August 19 at 1:08am ·-
Aminullah Alonto Lucman lagid ka wata ami e Samson, sa kapakl'ndo o kabagbok ka na ba kad'n pakataid, na kowa ka san sa garing ka ka angka makatitik'na wata ami! Mkkkkk Odi na makbaling ka na awid ka sa limo a poon sa pagiranun owm Arata Wata ami?August 19 at 1:54am ·
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Gerardo Deleon if no one wants to be tagged with the MORO identities then whats the alternative to this? time to revise this unwanted identities and whats the most suitable and more respectable brand new name you have in mind?as its in line with our ancestral heritage and can be widely accepted by the masses..August 19 at 3:36am ·
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Eiryneon Wave Suprisingly older generation of Negroes will maim anybody who calls them African Americans, because they identified themselves to the older term Negro, and consider it more dignified. Anyway, sir GDL is right. Let's disseminate the new term to signify our identity, what is it? Let's incorporate the name to the new Substate Organic act. It would be difficult to rename it once the bill is already passed. 2/3 super majority vote is one hurdle difficult to come by.August 19 at 4:41am via mobile ·
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Tommy Romuros Pangcoga I may be wrong in my analogies, but that does not mean that i will change in my position regarding the term moro. if there is indeed an alternative term out there that is preferred to associate with our identity, then let it be on those who prefer it to make it mainstream. and good luck to them. No one did the sincere and genuine effort to do so twenty decades ago. Also, we are just one little loop middle and top people (in the moro social triangle). Lets try to go down to the grassroots where most of our kind are and lets ask them. lets not make the same age old mistake of deciding for them simply because our class has more titles and more education abroad or in exclusive schools. There is no proof that these qualifications can turn the tide of conflict, oppression and poverty in any ancestral domain.August 19 at 6:02am ·
- Arata Wata Insha Allah, this is our (Bangsa's) "Arab Spring".
We, alone, are not going to decide on the new name. We will invite everybody to participate in the discussion and when we come up with the appropriate name, a name that we ALL can TRULY BE PROUD OF then we'll submit it to the Bangsa for approval.
Meanwhile, the MNLF and MILF can keep their names.
More later...August 19 at 6:12am · -
Tommy Romuros Pangcoga I repeat the moro name is first used by the moro leaders / signatories of the Zamboanga Declaration of 1924 and the Dansalan Declaration 1935 to refer to our kind. By questioning this name, it is not the MNLF and the MILF (who just copied the name use from these leaders) we are pointing our fingers to, but to these signatories. moro leaders who had lived prior to the time when even the oldest MNLF or MILF senior could barely walk or was even born. this must be stressed in order not to be misled.August 19 at 6:16am ·
- Arata Wata Our "dimaninindgans" were in a hurry to organize the "ompongans" because Marcos was about to declare Martial Law. They had no time to think deeply about the choice of name and its implications. Actually, everybody was scared that time, 30+ years ago.
Now, we have all the time in the world to talk and come up with the best name man has ever known. MKK... What will stop us from having that?August 19 at 6:19am · - Arata Wata It is expected that some of us will remain MOROs, loyal to the Spaniards in a way. That's okay. They are still part of the Bangsa. They are still our brothers.August 19 at 6:21am ·
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Tommy Romuros Pangcoga The "lokus, pagawid and pagawidans" who were signatories of the Zamboanga Declaration of 1924 and the Dansalan Declaration 1935 had more than enough time to consider what to collectively refer to themselves and their constituencies. they did not have cars or planes then. They had more than enough time to argue and debate and finally decide together to use the MORO as their identity. And i doubt if they were loyal to spain judgind on the documents they had signed. They are not only our brothers, they were our leaders, guides, elders. People who deserve more of our respect than the MILF and the MNLF, who just merely followed their lead.August 19 at 6:23am ·
- Arata Wata I have created a new group and we can create a real website later to post our discussion materials. Please join and invite your friends.
http://www.facebook.com/gr oups/153244311424068/
Im gonna get some sleep now.
A quick answer to Tommy Romuros Pangcoga: why do you think our elders would go berserk (huramentado) when they were called MOROs?
I think, there's nothing we can say or do to change the minds of hard-core MOROs. They will remain proudly MOROs. And like I said, that's okay.
August 19 at 6:46am · · -
Tommy Romuros Pangcoga Oh and by the way, neither am i MILF nor MNLF, but I acknowledge their contribution towards the restoration of our freedoms as a people and nation. I am neither government, but my father was for many decades, a lawyer and technocrat trained by the venerable Rafael Salas. I have lived in my beloved ranao for two months prior to my two year consultancy with an governor there. I was raised by Ateneans and UPians and I too hated the word MORO prior to my studies of Moro and Lumad history. I especially like the works of Prof Rudy Rodil. Very accurate. And I enjoy the contemporary writings of Mr Patricio Diaz. I doubt if they are MILF or MNLF too. now I am proud to be called a MORO and so do over a million others. I am sorry if there are still others do not see it the same way.August 19 at 6:47am ·
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Aminullah Alonto Lucman I think that the Americans may have referred to them as moro datus or mohameddan but there was never an acknowledgement them to have accepted for themselves be referred to as moros, I have a speech of Sultan Alauya Alonto protesting of the word moro as an affrontAugust 19 at 6:54am ·
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Aminullah Alonto Lucman and those in negotiation with the Americans were from noble families and surely have as much claim to being sovereign subjects of the royal enclaves subdividing Mindanao & Jolo SuluAugust 19 at 6:56am ·
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Tommy Romuros Pangcoga If the Zamboanga Declaration and the Dansalan Declaration, which are the documents i am referring to in this thread, do not mention the word moro as a referral of the signatories to themselves and their constituencies, then i will withdraw my position and encourage both fronts to do so too, even if they wont listen to me. there is also that response of the moro leaders of 1898 mindanao who rebuffed aguinaldo when he called on them to join him in creating a national vision and identity. Also, Bro,Datu Ali Al-Moro, has more references from the same time period that shows the same.August 19 at 6:59am ·
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Aminullah Alonto Lucman There's none to contest brother Tommy, aliens addressed our elders moros and we have absolutely no way dissuade them not to be using such. Precisely why we had 300 years of resistance against the Iberians and stiffly did too with the Americans till they gave up militarist policies, remember they instead sent school teachers the Thomasites instead of soldiers to do more war. Meaning there were accommodations with the Americans that were non-military in nature.August 19 at 7:06am ·
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Tommy Romuros Pangcoga My maternal grandfather was one of those they educated. Col. Manombok "Ruperto" Romuros of Marantao-Saduc mix. Indeed, there were accommodations.August 19 at 7:10am ·
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Aminullah Alonto Lucman That's what I'm saying my late father too served as 3rd Lt during the Jap war as USAFFEAugust 19 at 7:12am ·
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Eiryneon Wave Conclusion? Do we have to remain Moro, or do we have to apply something else? And what should be it?August 19 at 10:01am via mobile ·
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Som Defender Why not go back to the identity of the Sulu nation and Maguindanao nation? Though our brethren from Lanao are part of the Maguindanao Realm and were recognized as a major autonomous partner by rulers. Even President Marcos created the LTP 9 & LTP12 thinking that it would lure this two Realms in his grand plan. Why think of coining a term or word just to put this 2 Realms together just because they adhere to one religion? This two nation has their respective distinct language, traditions, culture and way of governance.August 19 at 11:22am ·
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Aminullah Alonto Lucman I'm comfortable as Mindanaoan, or maybe Mindanesian if all Mindanao people agree decide that the need to be separate be as far away from the Manila government because of irresponsibility may be warranted, if only to end this seemingly unending war in Mindanao due to the Manila government's criminal nincompooperyAugust 19 at 2:12pm ·
Edris Tamano Calling an APPLE orange is a BIG LIE just as calling a Malay MORO--there is no evident relation, only as fruits and as humans. In Islam, a lie, more so if it is that BIG, is tantamount to HYPOCRISY. And we do not want to be hypocrites if we have to remain Muslims inasmuch as we do not want to LIE about our identity as a nation. It is obvious now that we are reading DIFFERENT HISTORIES, or if at all, DIFFERENT POINT OF VIEWS of history: one is the version of the colonialists who hurled the derisive name, and the other one is the TRUTH. We do not stop at the NAME-CALLING of the Spaniards and the Americans, including their BIASED documents and written articles, and the coining of Prof. Nur Misuari of "BANGSAMORO" to UNDERSTAND a little about our history else we miss the truth. One source of the truth is the spoken word handed by mouth to generations, another is the written word. One piece of translated document as about that one declaration CANNOT BELIE or CAN NEVER NEGATE about the BAYOK (songs), the TARSILA (Silsilatun Nasb=genealogy), the testimonial documents of Iranaon scholars and statesmen and the anthropological findings of scientists and the living evidence of the present: WE DID NOT DESCEND FROM THE BLACK NORTH AFRICANS the West called MOROS or MOORS. These people NEVER accepted the derisive nomen from their enemy. Another thing, we are not the INFIDELS, the UNCIVILIZE, THE PIRATES, THE MARAUDERS, etcetera, that the colonialists are thinking when they lied and called the Muslims MOROS. Before the coming of the Conquistadores, THERE WAS NO SINGLE MORO in Southeast Asia, let alone MINDANAO, SULU and PALAWAN. The fact: WE ARE BROWN in race they called MELAYU or MALAY (Maly or Malayan) and many of us are FAIR.August 19 at 6:04pm ·-
Tommy Romuros Pangcoga As an experience debater, the logical reasoning that connects Moro to hypocrisy is "leading". Post hoc ergo propter hoc. If i am to be tagged as a hypocrite by a few who do not see and respect my views as my right and privilege, then so be it. At least i believe there are over a million of us who are proud to be called moro. In addition, if the order of business in this thread is now "kapamugus" instead of constructive discussions, then I better leave the thread. It would be embarrassing indeed if many of the other tribes in this loop see fellow Maranao's calling each other hypocrites. Anyways, non-identification to the Moro identity by the Maranaos understandable, since according to a CBCS survey, the Maranaos are the tribe that identify with the MORO identity the least, while the Tausug and Maguindanao identify with it the most. This in spite of the thousands of Maranaos who are part of the MILF armed struggle. Almost all of whom come from the Maranao masses, i might add, and rarely from the elite. Iit would definitely be heartbreaking to be party to a perfect example of disunity, as accused by the kufar of imperial Manila.August 19 at 8:47pm ·
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Ansari Dangcal Alonto Correction pls! Datu Casan Cana first coined "Bangsamoro" not Misuari because it was the Lam Alif fraternity that started the Moro youth activism in Metro Manila before the founding of the MNLF.August 19 at 9:57pm ·-
Eiryneon Wave "... I might add, and rarely from the elite!" - Pangcoga
Whew! It's always the grassroots who feel the heat and cold of life.
As to the apples and oranges thing, are we not allowed to use metaphor? Do we suppose to take everything at its literal sense, at its face value?
I support the Moro name because it has already been accepted by many Mindanaons, Pilipinos, and worldwide. It is the name that we identified with. It is the name that symbolizes our collective spirits and soul.
Words evolve as everything else. What once taboo is now acceptable, and vice versa. Moro is just a word, and a name that describes a group of people. If one does not belong to this group and can not identify with it, it is his prerogative. I can't force anybody to become a Maranao when they are not.August 19 at 10:32pm via mobile · -
Aminullah Alonto Lucman You know Eiryneon, all this rowdy intramural/ discord of even things I find really trivial had been much of a bloat because there's been more to inveigle obfuscate, obscure real issues behind why war is unending in Mindanao. Ours have been issues of sinister crimes, genocidal war all done with taxpayer money, this warring is a war crime issue, an infraction that ought to be dissected just as much as other places like Bosnia, as a war crime issue and UN should be able to come in and be supported by everybody, not cover up. Then we get right down the bottom of things, call me any name Eiryneon, just don't shoot to kill me for reasons obviously because I refuse to be insulted by being called in slurs, and saying that this plartform for peace you have is okay just fine, but it's not enough I know a way just lend an ear, you know Eiry something like that.August 19 at 11:31pm ·
- Arata Wata Damn the Spaniards! They left 100+ years ago but we're still suffering from the consequences of their evil actions and designs. If there is truly a just God, and of course we Muslims believe there is, who will punish anyone for however small bad deed he did in this world, I can't imagine the amount of punishment the Spaniards would get in the hereafter.
Few years ago, I thought this name-change business was an easy task because we only need to win the hearts and minds of our very own people. We're not gonna be out there on the streets fighting a foreign enemy. But its definitely not an easy task and lets cool this discussion down a bit. We are still one Bangsa, however you wanna call yourselves and how we don't want to be called like you. MKK...
What we are trying to express here are, what we believe, the fallacies of glorifying the brand name MORO. And yes, we want to have constructive discussions so we can come up with a consensus for a good name for the Bangsa. We are not in the business of "kapamgs". You like to be a MORO, stay MORO. Its okay. You are still our Bangsa.
Can someone please answer my question: Would you still call yourselves MOROs if the Spaniards did not come to our archipelago?
I think, the connections between the name MORO and hypocrisy are very valid because of the answer to that question and of course, the reasons stated by Ama Datu Edris Tamano.
As to the reasoning that because its already accepted by the Filipinos and world wide, that has to be examined and thought over deeply. The question is what do they mean when they accept you and call you MORO. Your glorious definition of the word does NOT count simply because they are the callers.
And finally, whats wrong with having the bestest name in the world? A name that everyone of us can say "I'm lovin' it!" (ala McDonalds, MKKKKKK).
Peace brothers and sisters!
Assallam Wallaikhom... Ramadhan Kareem and MKK...August 20 at 1:27am · - Arata Wata Please don't leave the thread. We need everyone's input. In fact, we need representatives from every tribe.
One good thing with the Americans is that they talk, they argue and then they come up with a consensus.
In Ranao, you talk, you argue and you go home. Never to see eye-to-eye with one another ever again. MKKKKKKK...August 20 at 1:36am ·
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Edris Tamano Simply put, BANGSA refers to a GENUS, hence genealogy. An apple is Malus Pumila and a orange Citrus. Similarly, the North African "MOROS (from Greek Maurus, thence Latin Moros=black) is NEGROID while Malay (Melayu) is MONGOLOID. In this situation, we NEITHER SWAP names NOR do we make it subjective as to compose METAPHOR or ALLEGHORY about it because we are talking about a BANGSA (Iranaon BANGENSA=genealogical line) unless we are coining a PSEUDONYM or a NOM DE GUERRE which are not the REAL or TRUE names. So much so that if we have to adopt a false name, WHY DO WE HAVE TO TAKE A RACIAL SLUR that even the prime target never accepted. You do not call a swarty African MORO or MOOR or else you end up fighting each other. Maguindanao and Iranaon (Maranao is a misnomer) are one in genus and genealogy, both are people of DANAO or RANAO (denotative of water: DANAO the flood water and RANAO the lake water), both speaks the same language, and both believe in their one ancestor, one descent.August 20 at 1:37am ·
- Arata Wata believe it or not! there are muslims in mongolia (100+K in 1 city). i just met one in the big masjid after the taraweh. but he speaks chinese though. i asked him, ni haw ma? mkk...August 20 at 1:48am ·
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Aminullah Alonto Lucman Ed just like calling your elder kuya or ate, tito or tita because calling them their, take note, real names may in itself be a show of disrespect, mama or papa on same premise. Ina, ama, bapa, babo etc, you know it's much of our Malay heritage as people with so much respect for one another, it's just us right Ed?August 20 at 1:49am ·
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Edris Tamano That's amusing, Koko--KUYA fro Arabic AKHUYA (O brother), Ate fr OKHTY (my sister) and TITO and TITA fr Spaish Uncle and Auntie (combining endings). These are ECKE NAMES used in place of the real ones BUT THEIR MEANINGS are NEVER derogatory or derisive.August 20 at 2:03am ·
Rafa Dillo Yel i was educated that there is lumad composed of 21 ethno-linguistics (tribes) and politically fighting for rsd in the thier ancestral land in Mindanao...same is true that there is Moro composed of 13 ethno-linguistics in Mindanao who politically fighting for the right to self determination (rsd)...do you mean i was wrong and eligible for a case of derogatory and derisive because i embraced this advocacy and not for the rsd specific for maguindanao, maranao, tausog, iranun, etc... in the same manner that i am wrong for supporting lumad advocacy and not the specific tribes?August 20 at 2:24am ·-
Edris Tamano Back to the proverbial APPLE, is it RIGHT to call it ORANGE? Our Philippine History and Institution subject clearly told us in High School and College tha MORO, like INDIO, is a derisive and derogatory word from the Spaniards, thence the Americans. In refering to us as MORO, the speaker is talking in the POINT OF VIEW of these colonizers. Muslims in Mindanao had vehemently OBJECTED to this slanted name calling that our government and soceity had stopped this in their verbal reference and in written inference, except when they have to quote from the Americans and the Spaniards of the past. It is only very recently that the MNLF take it as their name and battlecry. Along the thread, one said the proponents of the Proud Moro numbers a MILLION. That could constitute about 8 percent of the more than 10 million Muslims in the country. Ask yourself, your conscience, ARE YOU RIGHT in calling us a false name?August 20 at 2:46am ·
- Arata Wata Meanwhile, here's another Kini.Kini.Rock music.
Its called "O da pn katiroki", meaning "If it aint right". Lyrics by Ama Datu Edris Tamano, music by Amomoai (that's me, MKKKKKKKKKKKKK).
The song is just different ways of saying "if it aint right, make it right". MKKKKKKKKKKK... Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/sir aoul#p/u/9/QMbNpffCkEowww.youtube.com
Manga Salida i Arata Wata. Please visitwww.ArataWata.Com for discussions of Arata Wata's videos.
August 20 at 5:54am · · - Arata Wata Violeta M. Gloria, yodi giod ni nga discussion kay naa pay entertainment. asteg! MKKKKKKKKKKKAugust 20 at 5:59am ·
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Rafa Dillo Yel APPLE? is it RIGHT to call it ORANGE?...but it's possible hearing it between lines right...and more than within your capabilities...it is derserving for a privilege support...if by doing so is to effectively assert political rights and that is the rsd...it is proven effective with the three or more different moro political groups that not only national government but also international community are recognizing them now for the last three centuries...August 20 at 6:41am ·
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Tommy Romuros Pangcoga I don't know if the basis is anthropological or historical or linquistic, but there have been precedence that a term coined by a foreign entity to refer to a group of people (derogatory or otherwise) has metamorphosed into that very group's identity's name. and the group owned it and was proud to be called by it eversince. Sample would be the Filipinos. Named after a lousy and immoral Spanish King. But they are proud to be Filipinos nontheless. They wouldn't care if we bluster away about it its historical basis. Pacquiao is proud to be a Filipino and everybody is proud for him and his successes. Ninoy said that the Filipino is worth dying for too. And then there is another example, though the term is not derogatory. The Americans. The source of their named was taken from the land's italian discoverer, Amerigu Vispucci. Imagine that, the people of the land of the free, the home of the brave are citizenwise named after an italian. Moreover, this deep epistimological discourse would just make the average moro look wide eyed. and they are millions in numbers. if we try to convince them this way, they'd most probably say we are nuts and then walk away. and most probably they would say "moro" is fine by me. my family (MNLF or MILF) died by it. we believed in it because we suffered for generations from it. and we still suffer from it, whether in the hands of the colonizers, or the neo colonizers, or the neo-neo colonizers (traditional moro politician who practice impunity, warlordism and the like). So realistically, without me breaking an artery due to excessive exertions, i believe the moro term would still stick, not because there are many like me who are hard headed, but because there are more of them out there who have understood the essence of the borrowed term and the evolution of how that term eventually was claimed by them as their own.If to be moro is to be a hypocrite, then it is time for some blasphemous thinking. anyways, marami kami ng di hamak. Only The Almighty Allah (s.w.t.) will be our judge come mauri alongan.August 20 at 6:45am ·
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Tommy Romuros Pangcoga Passable statitical error. Minimum 2M people, plus or minus 200K people. Pwede na. heheAugust 20 at 7:03am ·
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Gerardo Deleon theres nothing really original on this earth except those of Allah creations,everything here is borrowed whether directly or otherwise,its really up to us to grasp or accept things as ours, borrowed or temporary,we all are confined in a vacuum that we have to live and interact with everyone, but we all also have the freedom of choice to realize whats best,suitable and honorable..August 20 at 10:08am ·
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Aminullah Alonto Lucman The war crime issues GDL, if uncovered well will unite the country make the youth even more proactively trained and focused on real issues, it will remove religion as causes why there is such unremitting pain in Mindanao, all this infractions are a crime against all of us Filipinos. Mindanaoans will break free soonest we delve on it seriously, I hope the Rome Statute pass quickly soonest it does, it is going to be a major major eye opener for all of us good citizens of this country.August 20 at 10:17am ·
- Arata Wata Why do we have to be very philosophical when we talk about our name?
Why do we have to explain to every man and his dog that our name is actually glorious and not what it was originally meant to be?
Why cant we just have the best name in the world, one that can be the envy of the world, one that has no derogative meaning, one that can unite the Bangsa and the Filipino nation, one that will set us free from our colonial past, one that will link us to our cultural heritage?
The Spaniards are not stopping us.
The Americans are not stopping us.
The Indios are not stopping us.
The world world will be happy for us.
It beats me!
... and I still did not get an answer to my question. For the 3rd time: would you still call yourselves MOROs if the Spaniards did not come to our shores?
Why do we need to lie to ourselves and to the world?August 21 at 12:16am · -
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Aminullah Alonto Lucman Iranun Filipino nga Mindanaoan, maayo man Arata Wata ami, nindot man!August 21 at 12:44am ·
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Aminullah Alonto Lucman Aha Delilah baka gupitin buhok mo? he he he meron ka na bang Delilah Arata Wata ami?August 21 at 12:46am ·
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Rafa Dillo Yel in the same manner asking you an aswer if is tantamount turning down and move for a total close of the Moro advocacy on the RSD...i dont know how ombra kato and many other more accept your thesis...we do need to lie to ourselves and to the world if is setting the freedom of the next generation...from where Delilah and the world will be happy...August 21 at 12:55am ·
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Tommy Romuros Pangcoga We cannot call ourselves Moro had the Spaniards not come. In the same manner that the Filipinos cannot eventually call themselves Filipino had not the Spaniards come. In the same manner the Americans eventually cannot call themselves Americans had Amerigu Vispucci did not come to North America. had i discovered that continent then that superpower now existing there would have been known as the United States of Ahmed. And the people there would have been called Ahmedians. Nevertheless, the twists and turns of history are part and parcel of how things have evolved and changed over time. These events are the crossroads, and how the people respond to the coming crossroads would lead them to where they are now. Ergo, Moro.August 21 at 1:52am ·
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Rafa Dillo Yel ...but they had come and we allowed them to come...one is daydreaming calling herself/himself otherwise Spaniards had been fondly calling her/him Moro...August 21 at 2:03am ·
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Edris Tamano LET US HAVE A BRAND-NEW NAME: In a recent posting, Prof. Nur Misuari owned the coining of the word BANGSAMORO. Centuries earlier, the Spaniards named the Islands Las Islas Filipinas of which the Americans translated and retained it as The Philippine Islands, now PHILIPPINES. Incidentally, MORO and FILIPINO are the chains that tie us to our detestable experience with the Spaniards, thence the Americans, that until now we are suffering from the adverse effects of COLONIAL MENTALITY, making us look up to anything foreign as the BETTER ONE. Hence we do not patronize our products, resources and talents, making them prohibitive or unreasonably high in prize, therefore UN-COMPETITIVE. Countries that are still tied up to their colonasers remain reeling under the bondage of COLONIAL MENTALITY and are not progressive compared to those that changed. Morocco and Mauritania, like the Philippines, still retain their names from foreign origin although THEY NEVER and will never accept to be called MOROS or MOORS, unlike us who are even proud of our foreign nomen and prouder still to LIE about our NATIONAL identity. Some people doesn't want to hear this FACT but one day, the TRUTH shall SET THEM FREE. Egypt is from GYPT, a variation of COPT of the Greek Othodox Chucrch, the eastern Christians of which Egypt used to be the foothold in North Africa (similar to Ethiopia). The people of Morocco called themselves MAGHRABIS and the Egyptians MASRI. Countries that are still dependent to their old masters do not gain the respect of others. If only these countries, let alone the Philippine will CHANGE to the BETTER NAME, all else will follow to be better. And so with the Moros who, owing to their name, constitute only a small portion of thr Muslims in Mindanao, Sulu and Palawan. Statistics had the the MNLF and the MILF head count as less than 100 thousands, making it doubtful that they can constitue a million. If they have a million in their roster, who can stop them from ESTABLISHING AN ISLAMIC STATE. Despite their incessant requests, they are NOT ACCEPTED as a MEMBER of the Organization of Islamic Conference--they are only given an OBSERVER STATUS whenever they requested to attain any of the conferences.. Libya and Malaysia only volunteered to broker peace talks. The Philippines and the Moros will most probably PROSPER if they consider CHANGING NAMES and shedding off their COLONNIAL EXCESS BAGGAGE. The GRP had to OVERHAUL its system and change its charter if it wants to GET RID of corruption in the Filipino society and the government. The MORO groups have to to undergo change, too, if it wants to grow, succeed in its rightful claim to self determination and gain the respect of the World. All of us have to CHANGE TO THE BETTER in order to PROSPER in life. Let us be truthful in our assertions and stop the BIG LIE calling AN APPLE AN ORANGE. Even small tots know an APPLE when they see one.August 21 at 3:36am ·
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Edris Tamano THE PHILIPPINES have to RECTIFY HISTORY and change it to the TRUTHFUL one if it deserves any respect. For instance, Fernando Magallanes of Ferdinand Magellan is not the FIRST DISCOVERER OF THE PHILIPPINES. The Arabs came centuries before them. The then known big nations of the world came to our shores in trade or to settle down.August 21 at 4:02am ·
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Aminullah Alonto Lucman Well Tommy, history inimical to mine I assure you will be resisted. Definitely will be trashed, that is mine to take. Rather than be the blind unseeing man to all these slurs? Not me sir, no God damn way!August 21 at 5:16am ·
Suharto Abas You are right Brod Tommy. The american continent got its name from a 15th century Florentine merchant who owned a business in Seville, Spain, furnishing supplies for ships, preparing them for mercantile named Amerigo Vespucci. But the red American are still suffering injustice by still calling "American Indians". The presumtions that theye were the "Indians" when western navigators were looking for that land of spices, is still unrectified.August 21 at 6:29am ·-
Edris Tamano If there is a historical relevance of the AHMED or Ahmedian nomenclature, it's not BAD as it does not carry a derisive or derogatory meaning. America and Philippines are not derisive and derogatory. But what about MORO, can anyone find any good meaning in Spanish, Italian, Latin, and Greek dictionaries and history books? The American say the ONLY GOOD MORO IS A DEAD MORO. Shall we lPERPETUATE the SLUR and BIAS in history? In Islam, there is MUTUAL CONSULTATION or SHURA. The Divine Dictum goes, "WA AMRUHOM SHURA BAINAHUM (to interprete it, 'It is enjoined upon you to have MUTUAL CONSULTATION)". My BROTHERS, this is our PART IN THE MUTUAL CONSULTATION--will it fall into DEAF EARS. Will the hundreds of thousand proponents of Moro listen to the SILENT more than TEN MILLIONS?August 21 at 7:39am ·
Datu Ali Al-Moro 50 years before the coming of Spaniards in the Archipelago (i.e. 1521-50) "Moro" had been existent as the regional nationality of Muslims in Southeast Asia. Rizal wrote:
“Fifty years before the arrival of the Spanish in Luzon, in that very year 1521, when they first came to the islands, there were already natives of Luzon who understood Castilian. In the treaties of peace that the survivors of Magellan expedition made with the chief of Paragua, when the servant-interpreter died they communicated with one another through a MORO who had been captured in the island of the king of Luzon and who understood some Spanish.” - Dr. Jose Rizal, The Indolence of the Filipinos, 1890.August 21 at 8:51am ·-
Tommy Romuros Pangcoga History is only as good as the historian who wrote it, Brother Aminullah Alonto Lucman. And all historians will always carry a bias that would be beneficial to a favored advocacy. Brother Edris Tamano, any new idea that an author wishes to be introduced to mainstream, such as a new name to the identity of a bangsa requires clout. Particularly clout from the grassroots. Because that is where great numbers lie, where the critical mass can be triggered. where anything isolated can become mainstream. It would require the introduction of this new idea or name as an alternative referral to our identity great charm and endearing qualities to the Masang Moro who only thinks of uncomplicated things. A massive IEC and advocacy campaign is therefore required and to package this allegedly new term to be palatable to the average layman. So far, and unfortunately, so many kids and old people in Mindanao who profess Islam culturally and by nationality (as distinguished from citizenship - which is Filipino) identify themselves proudly as Moro like me. In our eyes, the apple that you claim to be an orange is still an apple. Therein lies the problem Brother Arata Wata. This unknown new term that you wish for the mainstream bangsa to replace the term Moro does not have the clout yet. And judging from this thread, Kokonti lang sa amin ang nag eentertain sa idea ninyong tatlo. This needs to be addressed. Otherwise, this highfalutin apple and orange discussion would just be for our exclusive consumption in this loop and would only end as an excercise in futility.August 21 at 9:04am ·
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Datu Ali Al-Moro if our treatment of our history leads us to inquire what was Moro then prior to the date when s/he was not yet called us so prior to his/her historical circumstances would even push us deeper to the extent of asking what was us when national differentiation was not yet existent.August 21 at 9:08am ·
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Tommy Romuros Pangcoga You are right, Sir Tho. And the Americans are not the only people who were named as a people by foreigners. There are so many precedences. Unfortunately, there still remains a few who dwell on the derogatory meaning of the word Moro, pinning it permanently on a tragic point of history, when the derogatory connotation had long been eroded over the decades by the blood of thousands who died as proud moro, by the acknowledgement and voluntary association of millions that they are moro, and by the recognition and respect of a very large portion of the international community that we are moro. They even insist on putting the authorship and popularization of the term moro to the two fronts, when it is well known to be used long before the oldest front member was even born. I really do not know where they got their history books. Perhaps zaide or agoncillo. Little do they realize that the fronts are just mere manifestations of the decades old suffering, oppression and suppression of the rights and liberties of our people and nation. But anyway, this divergence and contradiction of frameworks about our identity is too much to bare as it proves to all and sundry that the inter-generational and systematic "divide and rule" strategy of the colonizers, neo-colonizers and neo-neo colonizers have become ingrained so deeply into the psyche of many western educated moro (or whatever) like us that we could not even decide to agree whether we are apples or oranges. Ang ending ani, basi lumboy lang diay ta.August 21 at 9:21am ·
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Tommy Romuros Pangcoga Bro Datu Ali Al-Moro, i would hazard that prior to national differentiation, there was tribal differentiation.August 21 at 9:22am ·
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Datu Ali Al-Moro But Moro had been a neutral if not good national label Bro Tommy Romuros Pangcoga. It was just bad among the Spaniards having invested upon iy every bad connotation that their wild racist minds can contrive of. Abdullah is a great name, but it will always remain bad to Abdullah's bitter enemies.August 21 at 9:26am ·
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Eiryneon Wave Heheheeee this is a good debate thread. :-) Congratulations to all, but i reserve the most to that little guy out there who seems to pack a lot of punch.August 21 at 9:52am via mobile ·
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Edris Tamano Such arguments are just WISTFUL THINKING that defies reality. My younger brothers, in your kind of arguments, I don't wish to argue as I don't see any meeting of the minds. I'll just state the facts for those who need it. The word MORO came from the colonizers, i.e, Greek (Maurus, meaning BLACK), the Romans, the Spaniards, the Americans, and the Filipinos before the RP govt banned the reference or inference theref. It was discussed by noted Western historians and orientalist in reference to their point of view of the subject according to its specific timeline. These include Agoncillo, Zaide, Rizal, et al. who are non-Muslims. No Muslim entity has coined it--in fact, in the Muslim version of History, no one used the word Moro, and if in quotation, very sparingly. Muslim historians such as Ibn Al-Athir, Baha' Al-Din, Ibn Al-Qalanisi, Kamal Al-Din, Usama, Imad Al-Din, Manaqib Rashid Al-Din, Ibn Wasil, Abu Shama, Sibt Ibn Al-Jauzi, Ta'rikh Mansuri, Al-Furrat, Abu Al-Fidha', Abul Mahasi, et al, never highlighted such entity as MORO. This includes also Akbar Shah Najeeb Babadi. My good friend and mentor, Dr. Cesar Adib Majul entitled his book MUSLIMS IN THE PHILIPPINES, not MOROS in the Philippines. As I said many times over, if a Muslim says MORO to refer to the Muslims in the Philippines, he is speaking in the point of view of the colonizers as these are available in the World Library of Congress, in the National Library, and in the Internet. NOBODY can find the word MORO in the DARANGEN, in the Iranaon or Maranao Bayok, and in their adages, proverbs, expressions. Unless a Filipino stdy abroad in high school and college can he avoid historians like Agoncillo and Zaide. Now, in all department, branches, and sections of the government, MORO is nowhere to find as it is held UNLAWFUL for any Filipino citizen to refer to Muslims as Moros. Most probably, more than anyone of you I outlived this problem and I could not forget how FIGHTS ensued when a Christian called a Muslim MORO or MOROS. As to numbers, NO ONE CAN ARGUE that every morning, countless Muslim pupils, students, workers, employees, foreign service corps, etc. SWEARING ALLEGIANCE to the Philippines and the flag and not to MOROS--they are so regularly incessant that even Moros are doing that. The ARMM do not bear the word MORO even when Chairman Nur took over as its governor. Let us come up with numbers, datas, and authors on both of the religious divide, if indeed others believe otherwise, contrary to the facts, the TRUTH. Just look WHO IS TALKING.August 21 at 10:58am ·
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Edris Tamano Let us pray Allah that we will have a FREE STATE of our own, for the Muslims in Mindanao, Sulu and Palawan. As Muslims, we are compared to ONE BODY to share the feelings in PEACE and CRISIS, in agony and ecstasy. And as Muslims, too, we are enjoined by Islam, our laws and way of life to be TRUTHFUL. MORO is a foreign word, not Arabic, not Malay, Tausug, Maguindanaon or Iranaon--we are not MORO by race, no way. There is no MORO NATION in the east, no MORO lingua franca in any historical data, no Moro state that is recognized by any country, no Moro ambassadors and embassies to any country, etcetera. To say there existed is not only a lie, it is just wistful thinking. We have only the two factions of the Moro Fronts that yearned to form as yet a NATION. Prof. Nur Misuari held a big conventions that called for the forming of a Moro state, but that remained to be a dream when he joined the Philippine government and headed the ARMM. The MILF had promised to for a state more than ten years ago, but until now, it is still a promising dream. So where in any nook and corner of the world can you find a Moro nation? You don't have to be seemingly academic about it without any basis. As long as the PROPONENTS of MILF remain in the front fighting for a STATE or negotiating with President Aquino, there is no EN FACTO or DE FACTO MORO NATION, because if there is as you wrongfully declared, the Muslim state will be the first to recognize it. The fact remains that MILF is not recognized as a member of the OIC and the MNLF is given only OBSERVER status. The other facts is you are not TRUTHFUL about your assertions and allegations, that you are only annoying everybody with your inverse syllogisms. Let us always pray that Allah Most Gracious Most Merciful give us the Islamic state that we are lamoring for. But our observation that using a Latin word Moro is not uniting us because many of us do not want to LIE and CALL AN APPLE ORANGE. That is truly absurd.August 21 at 2:06pm ·
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Edris Tamano The more than TEN MILLION Filipino citizens do not have dual citizenship (two valid residence permit) as to be a citizen of the Philippines and as citizen of a non-existing Moro nation yet. It is only the little fractions of the Muslims who have dual citizenship: the SENIOR CITIZENS who are also Filipino citizens. When the leaders of the factions travels abroad, it is ironical that they used furtively Filipino passports, NEVER MORO passports as there was none. My brothers, let us join hands in UNITING our people by using OUR VERY OWN NAMES instead of borrowing from the enemies that signifies the similar bondage that our brother non-Muslim, the so-called Indios, have been suffering. The name FILIPINOS was not really coined for the Indios--never for their detested enemies. it is for the children of the Spaniards whom they are envisioning to be the citizens of the Islands with the lowly Indios as subjects. But when they were defeated by the Americans and when the Indios resisted, the name included the Indios. So, you cannot insists that you composed of a MILLION Moro citizens because you may be lying a MILLION times.August 21 at 2:24pm ·
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Edris Tamano About MARTYRDOM, A Muslim must HUMBLY DIE for Allah--any atom of PRIDE will lead him to astray and answer for it in the YAWM AL-QIYAMA. If one DIES for OTHER THAN ALLAH--much more PROUDLY, astaghfirullah, HE WIL NOT DIE A SHAHEED or martyr. The dictum goes, "Ittaqullaha wa la tamutunna illa wa antum MUSLIMUN..." roughly translated as 'FEAR ALLAH (piety) as He should be feared (in piety=taqwa) and DIE NOT except that you die as MUSLIMS'. There was no mention, no suggestions, no reference, no inference of the Latin (Spanish) word MORO. Allahu Akbar. MUSLIMS MUST NOT BE PROUD IF THEY HAVE TO REMAIN MUSLIMS.August 21 at 2:39pm ·
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Edris Tamano Yes, "... HAQQA TUQATIHI..."is the missing word. Astaghfirullah...wa subhanallah. Brothers, THINK ABOUT IT--let us rectify our ERRORS in history and in our lives. BE HONEST TO YOURSELF. This Spaniards INVESTED NAME for us still carry its DENOTATION and CONNOTATON: Nobody can erase or strike out the word MORO meanin BLACK from the BILLIONS of Latin, Italian, Spanish, dictionaries and nobody could delete the bad connotations from the millions of history books.August 21 at 2:48pm ·
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Rafa Dillo Yel MNLF, MILF, etc... have made their share in bringing about Moro in the forefront of the world and international circles not only at the "usapang barbero", academic books, and facebook threads but in the series of battle fields sacrificing thousand of lives and properties...they have done their assertion otherwise of the word Moro into a nation of people with the quest for the right to self determination in this part of the world like other nations...
we appreciate if the proponents of the "change the name" can do at par or better than these groups' years of assertions...August 21 at 3:52pm · -
Edris Tamano The MNLF and the MILF, or any one of them, being the PROTAGONISTS in this NOBLE HUMAN PURSUIT are the RIGHT PEOPLE who can DELETE the bad connotation and denotation by changing the word MORO and replacing it with a NATIVE or ISLAMIC names that could best UNITE the Muslims in Minsupala. But, of course, as part of the UMMAH, that is as STAKEHOLDERS here, WE ARE CONCERNED about the effect of the slur. That is why WE ARE ADVOCATING THE CHANGE. We are not in anyway the adversary--we, too, are MUSLIMS, your brothers, or cousins. As to those who lose their lives in battle and those who are still risking, ALLAH will REWARD THEM, PROTECT THEM or send them to Paradise, if indeed they were Mujadideen, not anything else, not TONDA force. So, why don't you, brothers, join the advocacy so that if we are more or less numerous, our leaders MAY TAKE HEED. Nobody will rectify our FLAW except us. WE ARE A FAMILY with a one religion and one cause.August 21 at 5:33pm ·
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Edris Tamano There are many entities or countries that CHANGED their names from the old names coined by aliens to their culture: SRI LANKA from CEYLON, KAMPUCHEA from Cambodia, BEIJING from PEKING, MALAYSIA from the State of Malaya, TAIWAN from FORMOSA, JAPAN from CIPANGO, SAUDI ARABIA from ARABIA FELIX, and many others.August 21 at 5:43pm ·
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Datu Ali Al-Moro Repost:
It's the Spaniards who invested Moro with grave estimate and degrading connotation afterward. But to other Europeans prowling the Southeast Asian waters, Moros were good trade partners, translators, guides and others. Rizal noted that Moros had been a good Castillan translators 50 years prior to Magellanes' landing in Cebu. (That's 1521-50)
It's that to Spaniards and other Europeans that time, all who professed Islam were Moros (or "followers of Mahoma") from Iberian peninsula to Southeast Asia. When referred to Muslims of Southeast Asian in general or of Sulu and Bindanao in particular, the Moro but inherited the animosity of Spaniards against Moors who subjected Spain into conquest for about 800 years.
But were Moors really that bad?
Rizal said it's not: “…And in spite of the chivalrous spirit, the gallantry and the religious toleration of the califs,” - Philippines: A Century Hence, 1890
Other authors too said it's not:
“The Muslim rulers of Spain were generally tolerant of other religions, allowing both Jews and Christians to practice their faiths---a courtesy seldom extended to Jews and Muslims in Christian countries at that time.” - Terrence Ball and Richard Dagger, Political Ideologies and the Democratic Ideal, p. 269
“In its golden age, Islamic Spain was among the most civilized places on the planet—renowned for its scientists and philosophers, artists and architects, poets and musicians. In the matter of religion, Islamic sultans generally tolerated and protected Jews and Christians.” -Cullen Murphy, Tales of the Alhambra : The Lost Islamic World of Southern Spain---and Its Modern Echoes, Reader’s Digest, June 2002.August 21 at 6:09pm ·
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Tommy Romuros Pangcoga I distinguish my citizenship from my nationality. I am a Filipino by citizenship. But i was not the one who filled up my birth certificate. And until I die, i will question that citizenship. I am a Moro by nationality, as is my understanding. I can distinguish my nationality from my citizenship. Because the two can be treated separately. Ther is no law that says otherwise.August 21 at 6:34pm ·
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Tommy Romuros Pangcoga Oh and by the way, since i learned about my history better, i never place my hands on my chest whenever the national anthem is played. but i give due respect and stand at attention. with my hands behind my back or to the sides. I have never voted since 1993. And i will continue to place my faith on the Moro-GRP peace process (both tracts) because they have made many gains so far on the bangsa's behalf. Siguro hanggand dito nalang ako. When you are accused of lying simply because you have a different perception, that only means the persons you are talking to do not respect your right to having a different perspective. Pagka ganyan na ang arrive natin, mabuti pang lumipat na ng thread. I was raised by my father to respect elders. But not necesarily believe them all the time, especially if i believe that what i have is the truth. Salaam to one and all.August 21 at 6:40pm ·
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Rafa Dillo Yel but why these groups (MNLF & MILF) never joined the banwagon of changing names or participated in the name game...are their behavior cool on the "NOBLE HUMAN PURSUIT" would mean they are disinterested and feel not the right one?...well as i see them aside from being proud Moro...i supposed they have 1001 (political, economic and cultural) reasons to be respected and affirmed...August 21 at 6:43pm ·
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Edris Tamano As I said these Christians writers were speaking in their own POINT OF VIEW and it is evident that they are mixing up things in a way akin to western bias. At the outset, the colonizers (Romans) were referring to North African BLACKS as the MOROS (meaning black), not the ruling Arabs who are not blacks. Even Mahoma is a non-Muslim name-calling. You are not following the thread, Al-Moro. What is you point in presenting an erroneous account from non-Muslims? The ARABS were not the MOORS or MOROS that is being referred to. And this small piece will not make MORO (black, a racial slur) as BLANCO (white as the UMAYYADS that ruled Andalucia (Spain and Portugal and part of Southern France=Iberia). This will not support your misinformed act of USING AL-MORO (as if Arabic in which it is not, the proper is El MORO in Spanish, the source, never the Arabs). In other words, these words of appreciation is misdirected to the Moros--it was for the Arab rulers. Never did the Moros ruled Spain effectively; in fact, in the later chapter of the Muslim rules in Andalucia, the Moravids ruled resulting in the driving away of the last vestige of Islam in that region. Why don't you try researching on Arab historians if you find a reference on Moro. Don't be misled by these mixed-up accounts.August 21 at 6:50pm ·
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Datu Ali Al-Moro Edris Tamano, I am just relating that the bias and animosity of Spaniards against Moors which was transferred to the Moros or Muslims in SEA when they prowl over here was categorically not true. If I ask you, you have a good name i.e. Edris, but to your bitter enemies, in their inveterate hatred of you, they'll heap all kinds of malice and invest on it, will we you then be taken by their concocted prejudice and maliciously contrived estimate about you which are not true anyway and then change your name that would sound good to their ears???August 21 at 6:57pm ·
- Arata Wata Rafa Dillo Yel: A society that lies about itself is doomed to fail. In India, they call it bad Karma. Our false name is one reason why the Indios don't respect us and thus, not giving us the justice we so deserve.
Tommy Romuros Pangcoga: The brand name MORO is not the same as the names, Americans and Filipinos. The latter were given in the spirit of success, of the promise of good life. The Spaniards did not call us MOROs out of love and respect for our Bangsa. They hated us! They looked down on us! They tried so hard to subdue the Bangsa. The Filipino name was not for the Indios. But the Indios did not like their derogatory name and wisely, they simply dropped it but wrongly took the name Filipinos.
Datu Ali Al-Moro: The claim that we were MOROs before the coming of the Spaniards is like calling a cow a burger long before it was killed, chopped into pieces, put into the gounding machines and made into burger patties. Whatever is your source, please keep it to yourself. I thought, that was a line in the Comedy Central. MKK
We become philosophical when we talk about our name because its false. Now, when we talk about our name, we also have to talk about apples, oranges, the Americans, the North Africans, the Greeks... what else? Maybe the buayas in Pulangi one of these days. MKK. In the software world, we call that program buggy. What you would do is you update the program to fix the erroneous code, put more error checking routines or add more functionalities. Bug fixing is normal. What is not normal is you go to your manager and say, "Yes, we found bugs in the applications but the company will have to adapt because few of the programmers have developed close relationship with the little bugs that pops up here and there. Forget about the customer complaints. We have read some old maketing brochures that says our product is good".
Anyways, Anaklito did not go to school. He has no appreciation or understanding of all these history stuff and philosopies but unfortunately his definition is what counts when he call you MORO.
Datu Ali Al-Moro: your assertion that there's no good name from your bitterest enemy is wrong. Many people hates America but they don't associate the name America with racial slurs. In fact, majority of them wanted to live in America and become Americans. So don't generalize.
What we do or don't do today will have profound effect on the future Bangsa. The 9 Million Muslims can not be held hostages by the 1M Proud Moros.
But when the Aliens arrive on April 32, 2099 at 4:31PM PST, they will say "1#*$23%(#!#" meaning "What the f**K? They really called themselves MOROs? Dude?". MKKKKKKAugust 21 at 11:37pm · -
Datu Ali Al-Moro chillax Arata Wata, okay what is your alternative then? let us hear ye.:-)August 21 at 11:41pm ·
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